Doctorinal Question: JWs teach Jesus is Micheal the Arc Angel.....

by Lady Liberty 72 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR,

    I am not sure I am following what you are saying. John 1:1 states The Word was with God and the Word was God. You are saying that it should read the "word was a god" to mean a diety of lesser power than the father?

    If that is correct then how do you get around the fact that the Bible is monotheistic? There is only one true God and all others are false according to scripture. So is Jesus a false god?

    Also, can you give any support by Bible Scholars for the addition of "a" in John 1:1 or was it added merely by the supporters of the Jesus is Michael theology people?

    One last thing; if Jesus was not EQUAL in nature to the father, why did the Pharisees say he was "calling himself God's son, making himself equal to God?".

    Better yet, I have started another thread to discuss John 1:1 in greater detail. Feel free to answer these Q's on that thread if you wish. If not, thanks again for your replies. We will just have to agree to disagree at this point.

    btw: Russell did not make his own bible translation but when quoting John 1:1 in his SIS books, he added the "a" into the text to support his theology that Christ is not The God.

    (edited to add) - RR, please go to the thread Lets discuss John 1:1 I started. I answered your reply about why "a" is added to John 1:1 on that thread. I would appreciate your comments there. Lilly

  • RR
    RR
    RR, I am not sure I am following what you are saying. John 1:1 states The Word was with God and the Word was God. You are saying that it should read the "word was a god" to mean a diety of lesser power than the father?

    Yep!

    If that is correct then how do you get around the fact that the Bible is monotheistic? There is only one true God and all others are false according to scripture. So is Jesus a false god?

    Jehovah is the ONLY true GOD. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t other gods. False gods does not mean fake gods. Only, as God commanded, that he is the creator of all things and that we should have no other gods besides Him. As I stated, the scriptures are clear, Satan is a god. Men are called gods in the Bible, and whomever God appoints are gods. Jesus is god. The scriptures are clear on that. Jehovah was the architect, Jesus was the builder, Jehovah created all things through Jesus.

    Also, can you give any support by Bible Scholars for the addition of "a" in John 1:1 or was it added merely by the supporters of the Jesus is Michael theology people?

    I do have a translation published in 1828 by the Unitarians, John 1:1 reads EXACTLY as the NWT, “a god”. William Tyndale’s 1523 translation also renders it “a god”.
    Also other translations render it this way, making a distinction between Jehovah and Jesus:
    (ALT) In the beginning was the Word [or, the Expression of [divine] Logic], and the Word was with [or, in communion with] God, and the Word was God [or, was as to His essence God].
    Some translation render it “and the Word was godlike”, “the Word was divine.”

    One last thing; if Jesus was not EQUAL in nature to the father, why did the Pharisees say he was "calling himself God's son, making himself equal to God?".

    Look at the scripture again. Jesus did not claimed to be God , he identified himself as the Son of God. It is good to look at Jesus’ response to their conclusion: ”Jesus answered them, ‘Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came, and the Scripture cannot be broken, what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. “Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.” (John 10:34-39) Jesus quoted from Psalm 82, which was initially addressed to certain leaders of Israel identified in the text as both gods and sons of the most high. It seems appropriate to quote that Psalm in its entirety; “God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: ‘How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute. Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.’ They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. I say, ’You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince.’ Arise , O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the nations!” Psalm 82:1-8 Revised Standard Version

    Better yet, I have started another thread to discuss John 1:1 in greater detail. Feel free to answer these Q's on that thread if you wish. If not, thanks again for your replies. We will just have to agree to disagree at this point.

    I agree. Having studied this out for myself and heard all the arguments, I am not convinced.

    btw: Russell did not make his own bible translation but when quoting John 1:1 in his SIS books, he added the "a" into the text to support his theology that Christ is not The God.

    Er … that’s isn’t a translation, that’s a comment.

    (edited to add) - RR, please go to the thread Lets discuss John 1:1 I started. I answered your reply about why "a" is added to John 1:1 on that thread. I would appreciate your comments there. Lilly

    Perhaps … I do have a life!

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    RR,

    Thanks for the response. I can understand your position better now. Just one correction though, with John 5:18 I was not saying Jesus said he was God, it states Jesus said he was God's son. The ancient Jews wanted to stone him because they said if he was God's son, he was making himself equal to God.

    I believe Jesus is equal to God in nature, but not in position. God the heavenly father is greater than God the divine son. However, both are eternal and always existed.

    That is my take on it but you are certainly entitled to yours. Glad we had this "conversation" and I am glad it ended better than most of our past ones! So thanks a lot and feel free to join the John 1:1 on the other thread if you have time.

    Peace, Lilly

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