Help needed: Killing the 'The light gets brighter' argument?

by jah1914 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Sirona

  1. What was true about the answer? Did the answer change or did your understanding of it change?

  There is only one answer to the maths question - the actual true answer. You made an error and were later told what the error was.

  2. How should your fellow students react to the mistake(s) you made? How would you want them to react? Once you have what you believe to be the correct answer, should you bring it back to them?

  This is where his illustration falls down. The FDS is not just giving out the wrong answer in error. No. The student tutor has said - "Listen up everyone. I've solved this maths question. You all must believe it 100%, even if you suspect I might be wrong. Not only that, you must go outside of this class, go to the entire college and tell them this problem and this solution. If they tell you the solution is wrong, they simply don't have the right attitude."

  One of the students replies "But student tutor, I've done the problem myself and it seems that the answer is XXX, so therefore you must have made an error somewhere"

  The student tutor is incensed and says "YOU ! You have the wrong attitude. The answer is correct and that is that. If there is any changing to be done to the answer, then I WILL CHANGE IT NOT YOU. You must ALWAYS do what I say. Now run along and tell the whole college my answer"

  Student: "But your answer is wrong"

  Student Tutor "Please leave the class. I would also advise others in the class that if they discuss this with him they can leave the class too".

  3. Do you think the teacher is upset that you tried and got the wrong answer to a very difficult problem? Would he be more upset if you just gave up and didn't keep trying to solve the problem? He would certainly be justified in being upset and removing you as a tutor if in the problem you missed some simple math portions(incorrectly added numbers, etc), but that wasn't the case you got the simple stuff right, you just missed the difficult portions.How should the teacher feel? After all you were one of the few to actually set up and try to help the other students?

  The teacher has to deal with the fallout of you going telling the whole college something which is incorrect. He is also annoyed at the Student Tutor because he didnt' have the humility to listen to his student (who ended up being right, but had been expelled from the class). He is annoyed that you didnt invite the expelled student back as soon as you realised the answer you gave was wrong. He would remove you as tutor until you taught the students properly and stopped inappropriately expelling people. He considers your "help" to be just an excuse to get the other students to do as you say.

  Sirona
• 

  ellderwho

  This argument cracks me up. Okay lets see, 2+2 has always equaled 4 whether its 1874, 1925, 1943 and so on.

  The inescapable truth is that truth is truth no matter the year. Unless of course Jehovah decieved the Slave while giving instructions to the church Christ had inspected.

  Read the rest of Prov. 4

  EW.
• 

  Jim_TX

  Well, this is an interesting analogy.
  
  First - the premise is that the student-tutor is working WITH the students in class as opposed to his working out the problems, and then handing them the answers - right or wrong - for them to see and copy, and not question.
  
  Second - his example has an interaction between the students and the tutor - where they are all 'equal'. This in NOT how it is in the organization.
  
  Take his example one step further. If one of the students took the tutors answers, but then went off and worked on the math problems independently, and caught the wrong answer given by the tutor, then brought it to the attention of the tutor, what should be the tutor's response? Should he, the tutor - kick the student out of math class?
  
  Extrapolate that example out to the WTBTS and how THEY respond to 'students' who bring wrong issues to their attention. What happens to them? They usually get accused of 'running ahead' of the organization, and are kicked out of the organization.
  
  Or - what if one of the students couldn't understand the way that the math textbook presented the math problems, and decided to look in another math textbook - that presented the same - or similar problems in a different manner. He then comes to a better understanding of the math problems, and discovers one of the answers that the tutor gave them to be wrong. When he presents the correct answer to the math tutor - he is asked where he came up with the answer from. The math tutor then proceeds to expel the student from the math class - because he looked in a textbook not being used in math class. It doesn't matter that he had the correct answer to the math problem. The tutor then proceeds to admonish (or threaten) the other students to NOT look into any other math textbooks other than what is issued by the tutor. The math tutor also tells the other students to not talk to the expelled student or listen to his explanations on the incorrectly answered math problem. They are told that if the problem is incorrect - it will eventually be solved correctly - but they are not to try to come up with the correct answer on their own.
  
  These ideas may - or may not help. I think his example is a fair one - but it is not realistic.
  
  Good Luck.
  
  Regards,
  
  Jim TX
• 

  DazedAndConfused

  As soon as I saw the name on this thread I thought of something that was posted recently and hoped that it would be reposted. Thank you jwfacts. I want to bring attention to a particular point:

  Russell eloquently wrote the following truism that:

  "If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now; But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. … "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it…" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 February pp.3, 188
• 

  pennycandy

  Hopefully the response would be: "I'm learning just like the rest of you. I'll do what I can to provide the best guidance I can, and I apologize for my mistake. Feel free to approach the real teacher for anything you feel is over my head. After all, your final grades are your responsibility and are between you and the teacher."
• 

  RollerDave

  Damn!

  After reading the original post, I had responses in mind, but kept reading.

  As I scrolled down, my pointd were covered one by one by others until here I am with nothing left!

  This site is such an awesome source of info and opinion!

  I would only add that if the tutor was trying to solve 6+6 and came up with 66, then 10, then 15, then 36, and finally 12...

  why would he refer to 66, 10, 15, and 36 ans 'previous truths?'

  were they EVER true?

  RD
• 

  Dorktacular

  A light can only get so bright before it burns out! Keep that in mind.
• 

  SirNose586

  Great responses, everyone. Not only does the "tutor" (WTS) kick out every student who disagrees with him, once the tutor has changed his mind on the answer, he doesn't let the student he kicked out back into class.

  This is an abusive servant, certainly not "faithful" and "discreet."
• 

  drew sagan

  I think the biggest issue with this is one point:
  
  What are the limits to this?
  
  Exactly what is 'solid' teaching and what is up for grabs? Are there things that could never change? The truth is that we really are given no guidance in relation to this. The Watchtower is basically saying anything is up for grabs. At some point in time, it is possible for a JW to believe the trinity according to 'brighter light'.
  
  Is this doctrine really about fixing error or maintaining organizational loyalty? We all know the answer to that.
• 

  pennycandy

  Matt: 12: 36, 37 (NWT)--I tell you that every unprofitable saying that men speak, they will render an account concerning it on Judgement Day; for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.