And another thing, most of those religions you have mentioned have come forward, admitted guilt, apologized, and asked for forgiveness.
The catholic church has apologized numerous times in their past for wrongdoing.
The Southern Baptist Convention (if I remember correctly) even apologized for their previous stance on slavery during the civil war.
Jehovah's Witnesses (and probably a few more cults) Not only deny their worngdoing, they wont even apologize. Instead they still try to cover things up by lying, rewriting their books, even going so far to blame things on the rank and file members.
Yes there is quite a BIG difference between JW's and mainstream christianity.
are JWs really worse? (or: is every religion a cult?)
by inkling 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Junction-Guy
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Qcmbr
Sirona - great to stick up for the Catholics but then look into the lives of nuns and ask yourself whether they are part of mind control? Ever go to a Catholic school - did you say prayres etc.. mind control for kids. Did you sing hymns at school? Mind control for kids.. and so on - Its all a matter of looking hard enough. For the record - my father is Catholic and along with my Grandma actively argued against my faith to the extend that he divorced my mother and wouldn't talk to me. So from my point of view a Catholic ripped my family up - a catholic with a catholic matriarch at the family head.
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Junction-Guy
The difference is what the JW's teach. Other religious people may have some destructive things about them, but that is not what is taught by their religion, that is just human nature and sometimes people find themselves in bad situations.
The JW's actually teach to shun, they actually teach people to deny blood, they officially teach alot of things that are tangibly destructive.
I dont know much about the Mormons, so I really cant argue too much about them, maybe I should speak more with former members and find out the reasons they left. -
Qcmbr
Catholics have an infalliable pope, retract teachings at whim, make up new ones to suit, influence millions of people, kill/ed millions (still killing with anti-contraception policy), split families, split nations, promoted wars, played politics, hid abusers, teach using cultlike methods (imposing buildings, incense candles, chanting, repetition prayers), get people to pray to effigies, obey out of fear of punishment, break people with confessions, take money to support the clergy - oh I could continue - Catholics are a cult by any measure and a far more intrusive one than JWs or Mormons.
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Junction-Guy
No they are not. I personally believe that while they may be a false religion, I dont believe they are a destructive cult.
Most of the things you mentioned are petty and dont mean a hill of beans in the life structure of people. Things like chanting, praying to idols, or whatever. While these things may be wrong according to my religious beliefs. I dont see how they cause real life damage such as forbidding higher education, forbidding blood, etc etc etc.
Mormons have some whacked out doctrine from what I hear, but it doesnt prevent them from achieving a higher education, it doesnt prevent them from participating in our government and being well rounded citizens.
JW's are a destructive cult because they cause real life damage to their people, not just petty stuff. Tangible damage that creates an atmosphere of poverty and ignorance. -
Sirona
Qcmbr
I'm not minimising what happened to your family.
However, I'm talking about mainstream Catholicism in the area in which I live. Around here, its a fact that Catholics can do pretty much what they please! They are not forced to attend services and they can live their lives however they wish. I met lots of Catholics on the ministry when I was JW and I've known some as friends.
As for nuns, everyone is fully aware that being a nun involves lots of sacrifice etc. and I thought becoming one was voluntary?
Now there is clearly branches of Catholicism or people within it who are fundamentalist, but that isn't the whole story with Catholics IMHO.
Jehovahs witnesses take over a person's life - entirely - and dictate all that they do - to the point of death. There are NO JWs who can just do as they please and just attend on Sundays.
Sirona
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Junction-Guy
Good point Sirona.
My own church, if they ever started teaching that I had to shun former members, I would leave immediately as that is one sign of a cult.
I would be the first one to picket my own church if they ever started doing this.
The loss of family is what keeps alot of JW's in, if shunning were ever officially dropped and even discouraged, then JW's would be more like a normal religion, and not like a cult. -
WTWizard
The question was "Are JWs Really Worse". This means that, as a regular member, are you better off being some other religion than a Witless?
It is very true that the Catholic church (and the Protestants) are guilty of mayhem. The Dark Ages, the Crusades, many wars today, and the guilt of commission of sin all originates with the early Catholic church. They also edited the Bible long before the King James version ever got a chance. And, some people do get deeply involved to the point of interfering with normal life. There is no argument there.
But, the average member is relatively free outside church. You go to church one day a week, and if you occasionally miss for something important, it is OK. They do not censor you for private activities. They do not force the average member to spend so many hours out knocking on doors. They do not enforce their beliefs by shunning people for breaking minor rules. They celebrate holidays and allow children a reasonably normal life. While it is debatable that they do some damage by threatening with hellfire, they do not sequester children from society like the Witlesses do.
On the other hand, the average Witless is being spied on all the time. Every hour that they are not in field circus has to be accounted for. Children do not get to play or celebrate. They are supposed to be knocking on doors as soon as they can walk. They intrude much more on people's personal lives. And that is what makes the Witlesses so much more damaging than regular religion is.
No, regular religion is not 100% free from damaging effects. But, that the Witlesses intrude more makes them much more damaging than other religions. Plus every minute is accounted for in meetings and field circus. Besides, what other regular religion makes children stay up every Tuesday and Thursday night until well after a reasonable bedtime, on school nights at that, for regular activities?
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jgnat
As people are naturally gregarious, we will always congregate in groups. When the group identity becomes valuable, we start making rules for behavior. If it lasts long enough, controls on individuality and rules for explusion. The identity can become so strong that the members of the group may distinguish themselves from all other groups and even come to see themselves as superior.
I like Jean Vanier's description that as human beings we have dual and opposing needs for individuality and for acceptance. Groups are highly beneficial to us, that's why we protect them. Where groups become dangerous is when the needs of the group transcend individual. This can suppress the individual and do great harm. Jean described one way around the conundrum by softening the borders of our group, being highly inclusive, and honoring people's individuality.
Using this model, we could see JWD itself as a group with a strong welcoming culture. I do see tendencies to protect the group against "outsiders" who might hurt our group identity. I do think we have to police ourselves that we don't become so exclusive that we hurt newly exited Witnesses.
Armies could also be described as a damaging group. Individuality is systematically and brutally suppressed during indoctrination. I've thought about the differences between a cult and an army, and I can think of only three reasons to justify this sublimation of the individual.
- Countries need armies.
- Indoctrination and the sublimation of individuals has proven an effective method of creating cohesive units that can be ordered about and generally trusted to follow orders.
- Recruitment is open and honest. The inductee is fully aware of the implications and consequences of joining.
I think this third and final point is a defining characteristic of a socially acceptable "cult". I don't think the Witnesses pass on this final point. Veteran Witnesses hide from the potential recruit all doubts or oddball beliefs that might give them pause to reconsider. They are not honest about the full implications of the Witness life.
I think the Watchtower Society could be brought to task, even in the courts, for their deceptive recruiting practices. Our entire justice system is based on the concept of free will, and the freedom for the individual to join any religion or cult of their choice. But is the decision entirely free if recruitment is deceptive, and well practiced mind control techniques are used to coerce members to join?