by Sarah Smiles 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Sorry Mad Tiger. I still don't buy it.
I'm tired of assertions being called TRUTH. I had enough of that in the Kingdom Hall.
All you did was point out similarities, which I fully acknowledge. But are parents really giving homage to the sun when they do their Christmas thing?
Calendars honor pagan Gods. Are calendars inherently pagan? They would be, using your exact logic.
You are talking about intent.
I am not talking about intent or heart condition or motive.
I am talking about facts.
It is a fact that the days of the week are named after pagan deities, and natural objects that have been deified.
Sun day
Moon day
Tiw's day (War god, like Mars. That's why French is mardi, and Spanish is martes)
Woden's day
Thor's Day
Freya's (Frigg's) Day
Saturn's day
Fact.
Now, does that mean you have to make up your own names for the days, so you won't worship false gods? No!!!!
It's just FACTS.
The other things I said about Christmas are not assertions. They are facts. What you do about them is up to you.
Sigh, this is getting longer than I would have liked.
Are we going to go through every custom, and have me link to Encyclopedia Brittanic about everything.
Kissing under the mistletoe = pagan. Druids
Boughs of holly = pagan. Druids.
etc.
for the whole freaking holiday.
Don't let it stop you from having fun, but don't lie to yourself.
Last shot:
I acknowledged the similar traits of Christmas and our calendar to elements of paganism.
Your assertion is that the similarities make Christms PAGAN. And by logical extension, you would say our calendar is PAGAN.
If Christmas were still called Saturnalia and carried out in the same way the Romans did it, then it would undoubtedly be pagan (i.e., religious but not Christian).
But it's not. So since the current festival is different from what the pagans celebrated, although with similarities, it cannot be stated with certainty that Christmas is pagan.
We're all entitled to our viewpoints, but that does not make them provable fact.
I am not talking about these current mutations. People have added customs. I am talking about the core.
I am talking about what they did in the beginning.
True, they have added things, like candy canes, that have no pagan roots.
Adding things does not obfuscate the truth from me, though.
Example:
People may dance around the May Pole for a different reason nowadays, but it does NOT change the fact that it is borrowed from a centuries old pagan ritual still practiced by some today. It is a celebration of fertility. It's not about little Susie's motive when she dances around the pole. Her motive doesn't change the FACTS.
Agreed, there are similarities. I don't know that they're "the core". Kissing under the mistletoe is a fringe part of Christmas, for example. The core is the family, the presents, the togetherness, and yes even the tree.
Again note the subject line: Christmas is not pagan. The old festivities, whatever their name, were pagan. The subject we are dealing with is how it is currently celebrated.
So can we agree - yes there were "pagan" celebrations around winter solstice time before, and the current 'mutated' holiday is not exactly the same.
Everything is pagan in origin.
The pagans were here first.
If Christmas was linked to satan, why would satan allow this:
Oak Lawn, Illinois bans Christmas from schools
Here is a Christmas Plan They Can't Ban!
It is time to take a stand. Sponsor your church in
Project Merry Christmas.
Dear LINDA,
It's hard to believe this kind of religious intolerance can happen in America in 2007.
The city of Oak Lawn, Illinois has banned any recognition of Christmas in their schools. The ban came after a Muslim woman complained.
I don't know what you think about that, but I am more than a little annoyed by those who want to replace Christmas with a secular holiday.
It's time Christians take a stand and proclaim to our communities that Christmas is not just a winter holiday focused on materialism, but a "holy day" when we celebrate the birth of our Savior.
Sincerely,
Donald E. Wildmon, Chairman
American Family Association
LINDA
Why is Christmas such a bad thing when all the pagan traditions it supposedly came from happened forever ago? Has anybody met any druids lately?
Meanwhile, JWs do attend the many luaus in Hawaii when they go over there. They even attend the Polynesian Cultural Center's most excellent night show, where all the dances from the various polynesian islands are performed in as true to original form as is possible.
Don't JWs realize that the Hawaiian dances are based on pagan worship of Pele and verious other gods and goddesses? Further, don't JWs realize that on Hawaiian and other polynesian islands today -- this very day -- there are people who are worshipping in the old ways, making those dances and rituals very current, not merely ancient traditions?
So why is it okay for JWs to pay good money to go eating, drinking, and partying surrounded by modern-day paganism and yet they shun every aspect of Christmas because of supposed connections a thousand or more years old?
How can that make sense?
For me and my family, we attend the authentic luaus, and the PCC night show, every time we are blessed to be over on the islands. We also celebrate Christmas with all the trimmings. I'm very grateful to live in a time when nobody can restrict our access to these things based on their own narrow interpretations of some doctrinal code.
If you choose to see evil, you can find it anywhere. If you choose to see beauty, it's everywhere, too, though often far less obvious. I believe we are meant to look for the good, and enjoy it where ever it can be found.
SusanHere
The differences betwixt Christianity and Paganism are truly ambiguous to me.
