I don't want to hijack the thread, but is there independent verification that there was a John the Baptist? I'm just asking.
Prove to me Jesus existed...............
by passive suicide 51 Replies latest jw friends
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reneeisorym
In a balance of probabilities I think that it's plausible that he did exist. One thing I've learned through all this is that people generally believe what they want to believe and seek evidence to support their belief system, while ignoring the contrary. Hell I did it for twenty years as a witness!!.
That is the most true thing I have read on this post yet.
Why would the early Christians die under Nero for a ficticious character?
Do you guys realize that there is more evidence for Jesus Christ than Alexander the Great and yet no one questions if he lived?
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serotonin_wraith
Why would the early Christians die under Nero for a ficticious character?
Why do extremist Muslims die for Allah? Does Allah exist then?
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the dreamer dreaming
FALSE
see Joseph Smith's magical golden plates which have ZERO likelihood of reality
and yet people very early one believed and were willing to die over their existance, sight unseen
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the dreamer dreaming
the book ROGUE messiah shows that people, in modern times easily fall victim to fake messiah's and will often even die for them. ..
how many mormons are willing to die for a book they basically have NO evidence ever existed outside of J Smith's mind?
how many people of all relgions use their hearts above their heads...leading with their arse?
too many!
there is not one bit of evidence that ANY eye witness EVER wrote about Jesus... and all those supposed historians were passing on nothing more than STORIES which the person who told them likely believed...but what evidence is that other than the STORY existed.
people who defend the account of Josephus fail to accept that he also quoted mythical characters like Hercules as real people as well....or so I recall, I could be wrong.
christians have LIED and said there is MORE documentation regarding the reality of Jesus than any other historical figure...but they produce bupkis- nada, zilch.
Julius Caesar has people who believed in him, people who hated him and others write about him while he was alive.
the only person who wrote close to the supposed life of Jesus, Paul and Luke, did not even meet a flesh and blood Jesus and sorry hallucinated messiahs do not count as actual evidence.
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Narkissos
poppers:
The ancient textual sources for JtB are materially the same (Josephus + NT), but in his case they make up weightier historical evidence, mainly because they neither originate from nor could be altered by disciples of JtB.
The NT references to JtB reveal contradictory attempts (does JtB baptise Jesus or not, is he "Elijah" or not, is Jesus JtB resurrected or not?) to relate early Christianity and his Saviour to the founder of a "Baptist" movement which is still around, essentially "independent" and, to some extent, concurrential. If JtB really pointed to Jesus as the Messiah as the main Gospel plot line suggests, it is very strange that he still had non-"Christian" disciples years later (cf. Acts 19), and even millenia later if we take into account the Mandean sect which acknowledges JtB as the Messiah but rejects Jesus as a false prophet. The Gospel scene where JtB wonders whether Jesus is the "coming one" or not also casts some doubt on his previous "confession".
An interesting read at http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/baptism.html#john
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Warlock
If I presented a picture, you would probably say it was doctored.
Warlock
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serotonin_wraith
In 1920 a man called George jumped over a house. Lots of people saw him do it, but unfortunately no one wrote it down. Or if they did, their writings were lost very early on. I know it happened because my grandfather told my mother and my mother told me. I've now made a record of it in this thread. In 2000 years this post will be proof that George really existed.
Yeah...
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Narkissos
If I presented a picture, you would probably say it was doctored.
And rightly so, I'm afraid...
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keyser soze
I personally lean towards the atheist side, but I don't understand why it's so important to have others validate their belief in Jesus. How does someone believing in Jesus affect your life?