Ha, Jeff I am loving all those suggestions. My favourite being the details; it's as if they want to know. I'm not ashamed. Hey, they fancy women too, don't they?? Surely they can see where I'm coming from!! I did think about having the JC chat with my best friend there rather my girlfriend, my friend has been there for me since school and can think of questions and answers so quickly she will have them in knots. She wants to have witnesses knock at her door- she saw Mormons the other day and was gutted when she realised they weren't the ones she wanted!!!
I am just intrigued as to how they want to know details,
I'm sure some elders are pervs. There have been plenty of stories on JWD that tell of certain individual elders pushing it too far. I honestly don't think most are though. (Prolly gonna catch flak for that remark.)
The only real, by-the-book, reason they want to know details, is that they have to tell the branch what the reason for DFing was (if they do decide to DF). Loose conduct vs. porneia. Sexually speaking, if it's above the waist, it's loose conduct. If the genitals are involved (more than just a quick touch), it's porneia. If a person has been invited to a Kangaroo Court and tells the elders straight up "I had oral sex with this person and had an orgasm" there is no need for further details on the sex itself. They might want details on what led up to it, to determine if it was pre-planned or not. (The famous, "What kind of underwear were you wearing" springs to mind. ) But once porneia is established, there's no reason for further inquiry on the specifics of the deed.
Having just typed all this............Yeah, it does seem pretty perverted doesn't it?
Glad I'm not doing any more of these.
Now you see why it bothers me! What I get up to in my own room is between me and the other person there, nobody else. If I say all incidents were accidental and unplanned does that make a difference? I mean, spontaneity is part of the fun....... BTW I'm intrigued by one part of your post but don't know how to copy bits of the post of yours into my own (explain that one please!)... you mentioned oral sex AND an orgasm- is the latter important when defining pornea? If you have oral sex without the orgasm does that not count? Either way I'm guilty ;)
Just highlight the text you want to copy - then copy it of course. Paste it to the reply page. Then highlight it again, and hit the little balloon on the header right of the smiley face and that puts it in a box for you. Kinda like this;
BTW I'm intrigued by one part of your post but don't know how to copy bits of the post of yours into my own (explain that one please!)...
Not seeing a smiley face or balloon-- am I just being thick??
you have good advice here..
basically you need to figure out what you want?
I stopped going to meetings, moved and have a new phone number.. if I wanted to DA I'd have to contact them. i chose not to because it would be of more benefit to them.. help them keep the congregation 'clean'.. do I care if their books are nice and neat? no.. I refuse to live by their rules.. so as far as i am concerned, I have dismissed them and live my life
Alright all you pervs out there, gather round. Time for a little elder school reminiscing.
If you have oral sex without the orgasm does that not count?
Yes it most likely would "count". At elder's school they talk at length about what constitutes "porneia". ( Every elder is given their own bottle of hand lotion for this portion of the school. Teezin'. ) The illustration of a "flute" was used. (How Freudian is that?!?) Did the female just briefly touch the "flute", or did she play it? If she "played" it, it's porneia, even if an orgasm did not occur. I kid you not. This is just a small sample of the high-caliber theological training the elders receive. I'm sure you could come up with a lesbian equivalent of the "flute" analogy.
I just threw in the orgasm part to make my point that if a person makes it plain to the elders that sexual activity involving the genitals clearly occurred, the elders don't need to pry any further. Part of the embarrassment comes when you've got some shy, teen-ager who clearly doesn't want to just lay it all on the line. In these cases, the elders have to sit there prying and waiting and prying again to get the confession out of the poor soul.
It really is a sick, unscriptural "arrangement". Check out the post by "Confession" called "That Voice". It's a great work of prose and also shows why confession to the elders is not really a scriptural requirement.
You also asked:
If I say all incidents were accidental and unplanned does that make a difference?
The key word here is "all". If you committed "porneia" once, in the heat of the moment, and are sorry, then if they believe you they probably would not DF you. Several times is a "hardened practice of sin" and most likely would result in DFing. Although, even here it would depend on whether or not you had received counsel in the interim. If you'd just had a series of flings without any counsel, and are now repentant, they MIGHT let this slide with just reproof as well.
Hope this helps.
As for your posting troubles, what browser are you using? If it's Firefox, there's tricks to get access to the fancy features. Unfortunately, I don't know them. Someone else might be able to help.
Did you make a sandwich out of the roast beef, or just touch it?
I can't believe the analogy used as a metaphor for oral sex- a flute?? I would think some guys would be offended by that, and would rather such comparisons as trombone, trumpet, french horn....... sorry I'm not gross enough to think of female equivalents! Yes I'm using Firefox, I'm wondering whether my settings are different because I'm on a Mac. As for the comments regarding the way the elders would deal with me, I'm afraid I'm sure I would be disfellowshipped without a second thought. I'm not repentant, and I won't stop seeing my girlfriend.
LOL @ Burger Time! Roast beef. Ewwww.
I'm not repentant, and I won't stop seeing my girlfriend.
Then you're damned to hell! Oh, I forgot. JWs don't believe in hell. I think they ought to get some "new light" saying that hell is hot. I'll bet that could help the Borg scare a few more into staying in.
Oh, BTW, good for you.
I'd just lay low and avoid meeting with them. If they want to DF you on their own, they will.
ENJOY YOUR LIFE!!
And don't look back.