To continue fading or stop the madness!!!

by OnTheWayOut 54 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Dreamer Dreaming, if your situation occurs, I will fight tooth and nail just to be a thorn in their side.
    I am playing by their stupid rules, so I expect them to play by them. In the end, it would be beyond
    my control if they lied or somehow DF'ed me. In the end, it might show my family how warped they
    are. If my mother shunned me, I would work through her husband to show up the cult. Who knows
    how that would work out?

    Martian, the holidays was just one example. It isn't so much a big deal, but we are talking about
    ALL holidays- Father's Day, Mother's Day, Thanksgiving, National, and religious holidays. I certainly
    understand the hypocrisy of most holidays, but I don't see anything wrong with joining family in their
    chosen times to gather. Holidays provide time off from work, and schedules work around them. I
    could have used political involvement as my one example. If (as I know now) JW's are not working
    for positive changes, then social and political movements need to take place. Again, I don't want to
    debate it. I am not free to do different things.

    I may get to answering others today or tomorrow. Thanks all.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Reexamining my last comment, I can choose to gather with family whenever they gather, so
    I will not look at fading as a hinderance. I can get involved in social changes if I want to so
    I can stop feeling hindered there. Martian, I suppose your fringe-thinking works sometimes.

    Here's part of what inspired the thread. We went to a JW wedding recently. The people involved
    and invited were not from my current congregation (of which I am still an inactive member and wife
    is active). While I dreaded going, it worked out great. Nobody asked me difficult questions and
    I got to see that everybody was so much into going to college or not pioneering or whatever. They
    were "in the cult" but most were trying to have a semi-regular life. That wasn't bad at all.

    Well, the wife is a social JW. That's her main thing to hold on for. She believes they are God's
    people and accurately use the Bible, but the truth is that she is not a deep study person. She just
    loves doing stuff with her JW friends. I guess my going to the wedding inspired her to push more.
    She tells me how there is a going away party for one JW moving, and another party for some young
    JW who just finished the summer semester and now has their degree (or something like that).
    "We gotta go." "I already said we would be there." "It's just friends getting together, not a meeting."
    You all know the drill.

    It is very easy to say, "Just go without me." But I always feel the need to try to provide at least a
    mini-intervention. So I say, "These are events involving people in our congregation. They are so
    judgmental. What's going to happen if I show up, but I don't go to the meetings?"

    "Well, they invited us. There are others who miss meetings that go to these things." (Kind of a stretch.)
    The serious meeting-missers are not invited. Some come along with invited ones.)

    "My interacting with the congregation members will cause some of them to mark me and you. You will
    get invited to less of these things because your 'bad associate' husband won't be able to come, then."

    "No, why do you say that? You aren't involved in sin, are you?"

    You see, folks. This is where the madness comes in. SIN- as defined by what? -The Bible, my wife,
    the Governing Body, or me? Reading Ray Franz and posting on JWD is definitely sin according to them,
    but not according to me or the Bible. Truth be told- I should just go and cause her to be invited less and less.
    The problem (in my mind) is that she would view that as the friends being cautious- it would be because of
    me instead of because of them. I want her to see their real cult personalities without attributing it to me.
    Truth be told, the more I interact with JW's from the congregation, the more likely that they will decide to
    either save me or cut me off. I like limbo better.

    There's more to my current reflections, but this is the part of the iceberg that is above the surface.
    I thank everyone for reading. Now it just sounds like over-complicating simple matters. Maybe it is.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Sass, I am involved in other things. I will just focus attentions elsewhere. We take several trips compared
    to most folks, so we do have other things going on in life. I will throw myself into other activities and just
    stay away from the JW's here. I enjoyed your advice.

    Choosing life, an encouraging story. I may flip-flop on a fade being a further waste of my time, but for now,
    I think I can try to continue it. My feelings were so complex because I had been writing a book, then decided
    I just couldn't recommend fading so strongly when it hasn't always been so smooth for me. Some posters
    had been saying, "OTWO, what do you think?" or "Your problem sounds similar to OTWO's fading problem,
    maybe he can help." Some of my advice may blow up in their faces as some it may blow up in mine. While
    I can choose a life of fading, I don't know if I can continue to advise others to do the same. My comments
    will be more fine-tuned toward alternatives to fading or "just my experience" type of comments.

    I don't take myself so seriously as if I am giving the end-all advice. But still, for years I was trying to help
    JW's as an elder, and now I know how I contributed to a mind-control cult. I know that the standard advice
    dished out to do MORE MORE MORE was really damaging to some. I just don't want to contribute to
    anything like that, now. Often, people ask for advice here, and posters say quickly, "Leave your spouse."
    "Lie to the BOE." Some of it may be good advise, but we don't really know each other and our circumstances
    well enough in most cases to make those calls. Sure, it's up to the poster to weed out bad advice, but we
    are talking about active and inactive and former dubs here. Who knows how some will take advice?

    These are my further ramblings. Looking back on this whole thread and this particular post of mine, it does
    seem like an overcomplicated thought process. That's part of coming from the dubs, though IMO.

  • eclipse
    eclipse

    mad, are you a born again christian in the making?

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Snakes said:

    I wonder CL...how would you feel if you were "found out" for being here? Would you care or are you beyond that now? I still worry about it from time to time...but less and less as time goes on.

    I am in that boat. If I have revealed my feelings to my wife correctly, and our marital bond has become
    stronger than the cult bond, then it makes no matter. If the elders discover it, somehow, I am really
    prepared for the next step in my separation from WTS. It would be the unintended course in life, but
    not an unexpected one.

    I don't walk out of churches on the weekend, but I might if I went to a wedding. I don't walk out of
    voting booths, but who knows what the future will bring? If I were discovered at some charitable event,
    how could JW's look down on that? I care less and less about these.

    My family confidantes won't turn me in, but I care less and less if discovered giving a gift at a worldly
    gift-giving time.

    I will never be a witness against myself at one of their star chamber trials, but I care less and less if they
    ever try to have one. To be honest, I doubt my BOE is after me. They are fully indoctrinated, but otherwise
    nice guys who don't want to go on witch-hunts. The only real problem is the C.O.

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