HELP - Elders want to talk about Disassociation

by Steven 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • patio34

    I'm in a similar position, but have put them off with a variety of excuses. They have quit calling (it WAS only 2 tmes). Now, my neighbors who are JWs are starting the shunning, although no letter was turned in nor was I df'd. They think it's never too soon to shun! Some friends!

    That was such a clever obvservation that if the JWs were offered a way out without shunning (resignation), there would be many that would leave!


  • LittleToe

    Just as a point of note, which I imagine most will concur with (this is really for those who haven't seen the light yet).

    If you are DF'ed the brothers assume you did something - probably sexually - and the shutters come down, because you're now classed as a lowlife.
    If you DA, some ask "WHY???". Their minds seek answers and gossip.
    Going to a further extreme, if you then get branded an apostate, the shutters come down again, with no further questions asked.

    It's down to keywords that produce a knee-jerk reaction.
    It IS an indoctrination thing.
    A similar piece of indoctrination is currently going on to get the word "Internet" associated with "apostate". For most this has already been connected.

    Seen it time and time again, as have many on this board.


  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    "Thanks so much for thinking of us but we are just incredibly busy and can't fit you into our schedule. I'll phone you if that changes." CLICK.

    Polite but firm. This works.

    You owe them NOTHING so don't be sucked back into their power trips.

    Be of good cheer; it gets easier as time passes. Meanwhile enjoy taking charge of your own life and don't let them ruin your peace of mind with their control games.

  • Inquiry

    Patio is right steven... I hope this gets to you in time....
    If you disassociate, the problem on their part is that someone might think there is a good reason for why you did. They would rather disfellowship you and start rumours as to why you were disfellowshipped. It's all about appearances.
    I disassociated a while back, they could not disfellowship me because I quit first, but they wanted to, really wanted to.
    The problem is that some witnesses feel perfectly justified in keeping in contact with those who walked away, but will not talk to those who have been disfellowshipped.
    There is a distinction in the minds of witnesses, and they will take advantage of that distinction when it serves them. The elders don't like it, but there is nothing they can do about it.
    So if they can disfellowship you, then they really trash your rep, and trust me, they will. It's bad enough if you leave, but if your df, your toast.
    The elders tried that tactic with me too, and I didn't go for it. I was polite, but I told them that all I had to say was in the letter and that there was nothing else to say. They tried to push it, but I simply didn't go for it.
    I do enjoy quite a bit of contact with my former "sisters and brothers". They tell me that no one will tell them who they will speak with or not, but if I was df, I know it would be very different.
    Some brothers have said that I was df, but they are corrected in conversation with those who know better and have to admit the truth, or it makes them look suspicious.
    Hope you adjust well to your newfound freedom. It's a long road, but it's a good road. Much more rewarding....
    The longer your out, the better you'll feel.
    Toodles for now
    Inq :)

  • willy_think


    you handed in letters of disassociation. and you didn't really want to do it. don't. thay have no power over you. thay are hunting you. and the prize is your being DF'ed. don't play. don't give them power over you agan. thay'll only use it to DF you. that is all. that is there help for you.

  • Steven

    Hi All,

    Thank you for all of the replies so far they have really helped my wife & I.

    Well I did ring back eventually & here is a brief summary of what happened. Let me say that I wasn't sure exactly what I was going to say but that my intention was to let it be known that I had done nothing wrong, DIDN'T want to have a visit & definitely wanted to be disassociated NOT disfellowshipped. As LittleToe & Inquiry + others said - people assume you have done something, usually sexual wrong, when DF'ed but if disassociated then people may wonder why - plus I wanted it known that Lesley & I had made a decision to leave & had NOT been forced out or done anything wrong...

    Anyway I was talking to the Cong. Presiding Overseer, who is actually a very nice bloke & has an enquiring mind - so hopefully I made him think...

    I started by saying that I was surprised why our disassociation hadn't already been announced since we gave our letters in 2 weeks ago. He said that they had been dealing with something else (at this point I wondered if it was the UN thing but it turned out not to be) + elder who we had dropped letters into had been ill & had wanted to talk to us but instead had finally got presiding overseer to ring.

    This elder had NOT seen our letters but basically knew that we wanted to disassociate. I then outlined that basically nothing particular had bothered me initially rather lots of things - like had been praying for help & had got none even though was missing meetings etc. Plus had nagging doubts in general. Also outlined that my wife was concerned about "generation" change.

    Then said had done research - was careful to say using society literature - which was true initially then we have obviously looked wider - I hinted at this but didn't go down this route since didn't want to be labelled apostate. In short talked a fair bit about:-

    1. Generation change
    2. Blood change
    3. Voting change
    4. UN affiliation

    Then said that if this was God's organisation then surely all of this wouldn't change soooo much!

    He had not heard about the UN thing & he actually was surprised & promised to go & research this - since he wanted to know the answer & said that it might come up on the doors so he needed to know. At this point I asked if he would send me anything he found out by EMail etc. Hopefully he will really look at this. I mentioned the paper articles plus said that I had checked the UN website. I was careful to just use these references since I did want him to look it up.

    At this point he did get a bit stern & asked if I had been looking at "apostate" stuff - I hedged a bit here since we had made our decision to disassociate by looking at WTS literature only but obviously once we had done this we have looked more widely - OBVIOUSLY. I also certainly didn't want to give him a reason to disfellowship us - its their fault if they haven't announced it - once we sent in our letters we can do what we want!

    I said that given all I had said we couldn't honestly be JWs anymore & wouldn't feel right if we tried to. He then acknowledged that we had some serious concerns but wanted to visit to help us to find answers.

    At this point I said that I appreciated this offer but basically we would only discuss articles & we had already looked at these & made up our mind so I didn't see any point.

    Hence I finally asked him to disassociate us both - I also stated strongly that I did not want to be disfellowshipped because we had done nothing wrong. He verbally agreed that the disassociation would be announced on Thursday.

    I honestly don't know if we will be DA'ed or DF'ed - he probably has got some ammo in our letters plus what I said to say that we are apostates - however I kept anything which could be viewed as "bad" - i.e. internet usage - mainly out of the conversation.

    I think that in this case this elders motives were to help/save us but he also made it clear that disassociation is basically the same as DF in that no-one will talk to us.

    Oh well - we did it - hopefully this is the end of it.

    THANK YOU ALL FOR RESPONDING to my plea for help. It really caught me unawares & the instant support I have received was really great. We really appreciate it!

    Funny that - people on this site have been more help to us in a time of trouble than any JW & yet most of you are either shunned or viewed as weak from the WTS point of view. Well WE DISAGREE!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks again.


  • Richie

    As an ex-elder, let me mention to you that when the elders make the announcement in the congregation, it's exactly the same as being disfellowshipped with the resulting burden that you will be shunned for the rest of your life by your "JW-friends". I personally believe that being DA'd is worse in the eyes of the witnesses than being DF'd for immorality, as the latter is a matter of sin of the fallen flesh and they expect that you will be reinstated at some time in the future...However, when you DA yourself, most witnesses correlate this with some kind of apostacy which is considered worse and reinstatement rare... Sorry Steven, I just wanted to bring you to reality as there is absolutely no honorable way out of the witness grasp... But don't despair, you will now be able to think freely as time goes on and you'll acquire many sincere and loyal new friends in the "world" whom you can trust, yet they won't stab you in the back but help you be free as a human should be in all respects!!!

    Take care my friend,

    Richie :*)

    You are the music as long as the music last...............

  • Steven

    Hi Patio34,

    I'm sorry you are in a similar position as me. Its a really hard time, trying to deal with changes in your life & at the same time dealing with JW friends change of attitude towards you.

    Are you married & if so is your partner a JW?

    I hope it all sorts out well for you. Please keep in touch, perhaps we can encourage one another.

    After I am disassociated on Thursday I will probably make my EMail available but before then I don't want to give away my last name - which the EMail will! Maybe I am too cautious but there you are.

    Anyway thanks very much for your reply - I do hope things work out for you, if you need to talk at anytime then post here & I can at least listen if nothing else.

    Crazy isn't it - if you believe the society then people who have left or have doubts are weak & should be avoided & yet there is more help somewhere like this than anywhere I have ever come across in the organisation itself!!!

    Bye for now........


  • Prisca

    Good for you Steven!! By the sounds of things you handled the situation very well, and I am glad that the bro you spoke to was reasonable enough to consider your wishes.

    Now you are free to follow a new spiritual journey. It is hard losing friends and family, but the freedom you gain by leaving is beyond description!

    I wish all the best to you and your wife.

  • Thirdson


    We are all with you and will try to support you in this. They won't DF you as you have already DA's yourself. It gets messy for the elders to do that and DA letter is far better from their standpoint.

    Since you have a commitment that the announcement will be made next week you have the opportunity to let others know why you are doing this before the announcement is made. Let them know. They are going to consider you as dead now. At least some may be helped by knowing why you have quit.

    When you feel more comfortable e-mail me. We may have some thngs in common.


    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

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