144,000 Changes Coming ?

by Poztate 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  drew sagan

  My thought and your comments. I see this as a start to revise the belief to make the 144,000 a symbolic number and not literal. It would not be hard to do and would produce very little complaints.

  I used to brush this idea aside, but now I think it could be a good possibility.
  
  They still would have to believe in two clasees of Christians, but instead would teach that they just don't know exactly how many are in the heavenly kingdom. It would be a shaker, but I think they could get away with it.
  
  Of course, it could be a very damaging thing as well. I think where they have it now is probably where they will keep it. The only reason to change it would be for exciting the rank and file.
• 

  Poztate

  The only reason to change it would be for exciting the rank and file.

  That could be part of the reason for change. There is nothing a Dub likes better than "New Light"™ and they might hope it will feed the Armageddon frenzy again.
• 

  watson

  12 means complete...

  12 times 12,000 = 144,000 = Really, really complete....

  Thus, we have a symbolic number. How do you define complete?
• 

  SirNose586

  They're gonna have to go one of two ways: make the 144k figurative or stop reporting the figures.

  If they stop reporting the figures, no one will care anymore. It's a much easier fix than re-writing most of the Climax book; I think that'll be their next "new light."

  They might do that but they sure do like to report ALL their numbers...

  They report jack squat! Look at the Seventh Day Adventists' numbers. They do an amazingly detailed report of growth and decline, and you can get to it pretty easily from their user-friendly website.
• 

  VM44

  "They taught ANY anointed after that date were replacements for those who had "fallen away""

  This is one example of the Watchtower not following the Bible, but rather just making up something to explain something away....and they got away doing that in this instance for over 70 years!!!
• 

  Doubting Bro

  At the BS this week, there was some discussion about how the number is going down and that's a sign the end is coming. However, the numbers reported in 1987 (I still use the old book!) show I think 8800 or so (I don't have a copy in front of me). He totally skipped over the fact that in 20 years, that number has barely budged. I mentioned to my wife after we got home because I would have drawn way too much attention from him ( I think he suspects I'm not with the program anymore).

  This was the first time I talked about the May WT dropping the 1935 closing of heaven teaching. She only response was that the conductor wasn't the brightest and probably unaware of the "new light".

  If they did go to a symbolic 144k, they would actually be in line with what consensus opinion. That's why I'm not so sure they'll do it. They can point to the "many are called, few are chosen" to explain why its taken over 2000 years to select 144k.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  They will
  leak the unofficial feeling that the numbers are inflated by phony partakers, be they
  apostate or mentally unstable, or just mistaken

  So you don't think they would change the doctrine itself to become spiritual instead of literal?

  I just think not. I don't really know. They always do things that surprise people with sense.

  Changing to spiritual instead of literal can be done. I just think that would need to wait
  longer to happen, while pushing the "inflated" aspect could be more quickly put in place.
• 

  iamfreenow

  In the May WT Questions from Readers they did away with the 1935 cut off date to be part of the original anointed class

  I would love a JW to explain to me just how they came up with the year 1935 as a cut off year for being anointed anyway. There is no Scriptural reason for it, it seems to be something that Joseph Rutherford plucked out of the air, rather like his prediction of Armageddon coming in 1925.

  They still believe that the anointed all have to be gathered before Armageddon can come, don't they? I haven't seen any articles that change this theory, and as they now do not know when the 144000 will be completely gathered, it gives them the opportunity to postpone Armageddon once again in the minds of their followers, just as they did in 1995 with the generation change.

  As for whether they will change the 144000 from a literal to a symbolic number, time will tell, but I wouldn't be surprised by such a move, and most JWs would most likely accept it without complaint, thus allowing the Watchtower to retain and perhaps even strengthen their control over the flock, which is what they are most anxious to do anyway.

  Over the years that doctrine has slowly fallen apart.

  Just like most of the Watchtower doctrines then.
• 

  lesterd

  How many will have forgotten 1914 by 2014, how many little changes will be made along the way so that the over all picture will be changed to accomodate the times.

  Jehovah does not work on a punishment reward system, it's all on a promise, You have it ALL now, no one has been to the grave and back to tell you what is in the here after.

  There has been a vast amount of study to determine who goes to heaven. There is no "Great Crowd" now, they come out of the great tribulation and stand before the throne of God in heaven. Everyones "great tribulation" happenes when they die, so it is personal and if its personal, what are you going to do with it now?
• 

  lesterd

  "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd."—JOHN 10:16.

  I dont understand..one equals one, but they say that one is not part of one, new math from the new light?