So my mother finally asked me about my standing and meetings.

by OnTheWayOut 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    For those who don't know, I have a wife and mother in Jehovah's Witnesses. I only
    don't DA for their sakes. I stepped aside as an elder last year in the Summer, and I
    told my mother about it, stating that I had problems with the organization- not with
    the local BOE. She hasn't really asked me anything anymore. I have had my
    non-JW sibling try to approach the subject of "thinking for yourself" but they have
    made little progress.

    A while back, I gave my mother the book MISTAKES WERE MADE: BUT NOT BY ME.
    It has nothing to do with religion, but really sets the stage by explaining cognitive
    dissonance.

    My wife noticed that Mom and I weren't really discussing religion, so the
    wife said, "You didn't tell your mother that you stopped going to meetings (early April),
    did you?"

    "No"

    "When are you going to tell her?"

    (Long story- short) "I will tell her if she ever asks."

    No questions came from Mom until very recently. Mom went to the District Convention.
    She must have really forgotten about my problems. Anyway, she says she feels guilty
    because she was just tired, fell asleep during the drama, didn't feel better having gone.
    A friend asked her if she enjoyed the convention and she admitted she was tired, never
    answering further than that.

    "You don't need to feel guilty. The Bible says you have to answer to God for what you
    do in life. You feel guilty because the Kingdom Ministry and the WT keep telling you
    to do more. You don't have to answer to the WT or to the elders for how much you do,
    or how you feel about it."

    "I just feel bad that I am so bored. They used to be much longer, and I could sit through
    them, but now, even one day is difficult."

    "Well, there's nothing new for you. You have heard the message. You read all the materials.
    You wouldn't miss anything if you weren't there."

    "Why is the new release at the end, now?"

    "So people will come on Friday, then Saturday, hoping to see a new release, but come back
    Sunday when they didn't get it."

    [Back-and-forth discussion; Blah, Blah, yadda, yadda]
    So I say to her, "Next year, just go to one day- just go on Sunday. What did [your husband]
    say when you said you were tired?" (He's an unbeliever, usually discourages the long sessions)

    "He said he has trouble sitting through a 2-hour meeting, but didn't say anymore. Well, how
    was your convention?"

    "I went with [my wife] to New Jersey, but I didn't go in to the sessions."

    "Oh, then you do know how it's long and difficult to attend?"

    "Yes." Silence follows- I know her JW mindset is processing my words and actions and
    she is combatting her training to be a human being and a mother. Finally, she reaches
    for some excuse to keep on a positive conversation.

    "You are still in good standing, aren't you? You are still in the truth?"

    "Yes, I am in good standing. I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses." (My exact answer.)

    "Good." The conversation drifts off to other subjects, as she has managed to confirm that
    she doesn't have to decide what to do, but can continue to associate. She never asked
    if I am skipping meetings (actually skipping ALL meetings).

    So this is a really hopeful conversation. It confirms that I don't want to test the water by
    DA'ing, but my mother wants an excuse to not change things. It also shows me that I can't
    push too far with Mom but she doesn't shut down like the wife does. There's a chink in her
    armor. Comments and thoughts on suggestions on how to proceed will be greatly appreciated.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    You know, I think you gave your mom just enough to chew on.

    But be ready to give the whole story if asked.

  • Dragonlady76
    Dragonlady76

    This is good, she didn't elaborate on the "tired" comment and she did not press you any further about your standing, I think that's a big deal, normally dubs jump all over any percieved wrong doing against johoba, so not pressuring you for more details in addition to not lecturing you about how great the borg is leads me to think that she just doesn't care. So I agree there is a chink in the armour, it might even be bigger than you think.

  • megsmomma
    megsmomma

    You must be one of most patient human beings I have ever heard of. I think you do things the way they should be done from what I read of your conversations. Kepp up the good work is all I have to say....I have much to learn from your way though. (I am such an impatient person myself!)

  • unique1
    unique1

    Wow, you are really good at choosing your words carefully. If you are ever teaching a class in that, I really need to sign up.

    (Unique 1 of the I stick my foot in my mouth constantly class)

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    You must be one of most patient human beings I have ever heard of.

    Well, I am known for being patient. Even so, I was carrying around this folder full of
    WT quotes and I was ready for arguments with the elders. Before I got around to it,
    a few JWD posters convinced me not to bother. I would just get myself DF'ed if I
    wanted to win arguments. I was able to apply that same information to my wife and
    mother. A fade has to be that- a fade. Not a radical change. I have made radical
    changes, so I do my best to slowly reveal them.

    Yes." Silence follows- I know her JW mindset is processing my words and actions and
    she is combatting her training to be a human being and a mother. Finally, she reaches
    for some excuse to keep on a positive conversation.

    I got this from Steve Hassan's books- the silence. When you make headway
    in a mini-intervention, and the cult member delivers silence, don't break it. Allow
    the cult member to end the silence even if it takes several minutes. If they break
    it by getting out of the conversation, bring it back to what caused the silence.
    I did that, and only because she didn't duck the topic, I allowed her to change
    topics when I felt we made enough progress.

    My mother's husband- I could convince him in about 20 minutes that JW's belong
    to a mind-control cult. He's intelligent and logical and would love to find a reason
    to drag my mother out of the religion. The problem is that he doesn't read (at all).
    I can't easily introduce him to anti-JW stuff from the internet or books. I would have
    to directly steer him that direction. He might yank my mother out so insistantly that
    she feels that it is Satan's persecution, and it started from ME. I can't mail him or
    email him anonymous stuff, I can't get to him slowly. I am saving the all-out blitz
    through her husband for any event that leads to her shunning me. She was DF'ed
    and reinstated years later after 1975, and I don't think she'll shun me.

    I have had a hard time deciding how to proceed in Mom's case. My non-JW sibling
    has tried to help, but those mini-interventions break down to philosophical discussions
    where my mother feels that she is thinking for herself, and my sibling is really at a
    loss as to how to proceed. I have gotten my sibling to read the Steve Hassan books
    and now their mini-interventions seem a bit more effective.

    Even if I never get Mom out, I want her to feel better about herself and avoid shunning
    me. I am certain that this much will be successful. Her husband and her will soon retire
    and he will want to live the good life that he saved up all his life for.

    Thanks also, Unique1.

  • changeling
    changeling

    Good for you! Slowly but surely, your mom is seeing the light all by herself. And you've done nothing to alienate her or frighten her.

    Hang in there,

    changeling

  • flipper
    flipper

    On the Way Out- Mr. Flipper here. Sounds like you are doing a great job of gradually schooling your mother on your fade. My mom is the same way . She is 80 and her and dad still want to have a relationship with me, but like you I just drop off little tid bits of info to her to let her see I question things, but don't diss her and dad for still hanging in it. I've even gradually shared the molestation settlement info with her, good results, and told her about me questioning an elder and his wife for 30 minutes at my door about molestation coverup and the witnesses crazy view of education. She is gradually listening to me more and more about stuff, so I slowly turn the heat up, respectfully, mind you. So you never know what might happen! Good luck with your mom!, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Thanks all.

    I told my sibling about this so they can further draw Mom into their mini-intervention.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Good points in Hassan's books, worth a look if you interested in easing out your relatives, assuming they have the foundation personality for it. Some people stay knowing the hurtful flaws because they aren't the ones being hurt by them, at least they don't see it that way.

    Blondie

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