THE WTS: CRASH OR SLOWLY FADE AWAY?

by Seeker4 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    the problem with discussions of this sort is that we are forced to make judgements about the

    irrational! The Catholic Church gets along just fine, no matter how dumb their beliefs are.

    That said, let's consider a few precipitous scenarios for the Watchtower:

    There really is only one way for a Watchtower crash to occur - and this is based on observations

    about the few incidents in which Witness congregations suddenly fell apart. You need a deep

    scandal at the top that goes public. You need something that breaks Witnesses free from the

    notion that Jehovah directs the Watchtower. A big public scandal that drags on thru the courts

    and leaves them broke might do it.

    metatron

  • GoingGoingGone
    GoingGoingGone

    Hubert -

    I think this is the thread being referred to: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/138155/1.ashx

    GGG

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    GGG - Thanks! I was just about to post that link for Hubert. That's the one I was referring to.

    Hubert - Lori and I are doing fine. VERY busy weekend with extra work for me.

    Glad to hear from all the newbies, Say What?, J Seiss and Jam. Glad to see that Say What is using what he learned here to make some wise decisions before committing to the JWs. "The J-Dubs are odd ball uneducated misfits." That's a pretty accurate statement, and I don't see them changing for the better any time soon.

    Met - You're right. It's impossible to accurately judge the irrational. The WTS has enough in the bank and in Brooklyn properties to keep them afloat financially for some time to come. They will continue to have a mindless core of true believers, but that core will diminish with time, thus my idea of the fading out scenario being more likely.

    Could a huge scandal come to light? I have my doubts. The hidden database of accused pedophiles is known about, though hard evidence is lacking. The scientific ignorance and journalistic dishonesty of the organization with regard to the geological timetable and evolution are well known, but not as interesting or widespread as the efforts to squelch science one gets from the ignorant Christian and Moslem fundamentalists. Who cares about the dishonesty in the Creation Book when you've got the monumental buffonery of the Creationist Museum, with Adam hanging with the dinosaurs. JWs may look like idiots, but not on that scale!

    No, JWs are really a small fish to fry, too small to get much attention from anyone except us ex-JWs.

    As far as another massive scandal, I don't see it happening. I know enough about the Org to know that no one at Bethel is living high off the hog and squandering millions. There are probably a few hidden pedophiles in the upper ranks still - but they would be the rarity and certainly not part of any great scheme. Probably a few adulterers or fornicators in the upper ranks, but again, not enough to create any impact at all if they get discovered.

    The biggest scandal of the last half century was the Ray Franz incident following on the heels of the 1975 fiasco. Ray has helped more JWs out of the organization than anyone or anything. But who among the current crop of company men heading the organization will step up and rock the staus quo? NO ONE.

    That having been said, I think the JWs reached their peak a decade or more ago, and the combination of weak leadership, the complete lack of scholarship, the dwindling financial support from the rank and file, the huge amount of negative information about the Witnesses readily available to anyone with access to a computer and the Internet, and the extremely active ex-JW community will combine to slowly erode the organization. Will it end in my lifetime? I doubt it. But it'll be far weaker and smaller in a couple more decades.

    S4

  • Deleted
    Deleted

    Good thinking, thank you. I'd say you touched on something that is true the in the western world, the congos are all getting older and the younger generations aren't staying around. Now that could change with 'earthquakes and rumors of wars' as catastrophes seem to rally the troops, but fundamentally the current generations are getting on with their lives and staying 'in the truth' just so they can remain in contact with friends and families. As for crashing or fading? I vote for morphing, all religions 'reform' and eventually this will too. The poster who said that Jehovah will fix it is falling for the circular reasoning of christian cultures, there is no Jehovah. Glen

  • dogon
    dogon

    I do not think the tower will go into the night. Look at the past, How many times has it said the end was at hand and people dropped away only to see mind numb young people fill the gap.

    There will always be a population of not so educated or to young to know better or desprate people to take the place of those who get it.

  • emptywords
    emptywords

    I believe that everything that needs to be known will be revealed. I can remember the last district assembly and the old anointed bro said, brothers you may hear of things against the organization but don't believe them they are all lies. This was just after the example of a brother typing away on the net, and looking at so called apostate sites. He said they the apostates are all bitter and jealous of our spirituality. This was before I had ever heard about all this and what really went on with the abuse cases and the UN, then I found out about all the phoney dates and prophecies, thats bad enough what more do they need.

  • metatron
    metatron

    Here's two scenarios of sudden crash:

    1) a couple of Catholic level lawsuits wipes out Bethel, with public fire sales on property.

    2) suddenly, a change in case law makes them liable for the actions of all volunteers.

    metatron

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    I vote for a combination package. I think we'll see this;

    • Slowly decreasing numbers until around 2012 (A 1.07% increase is NOT a statistical increase it means your increasing LESS than pop growth so you are LOSING)
    • Small increase around 2014
    • MAJOR drop around 2015
    • Donations will drop to little or nothing 2016
    • Some of the inside 'money men' will seize control of properties, equipment, other assets (this is the big scandal)
    • This will result in a combination of splintering and more massive drop offs (I think we'll see a lot of new "witness type" religions spring up)
    • The core will stabilize and restructure half of them will try to mainstream themselves the other half will become even more hardline
    • The group that goes hardcore will be the older witnoids. They will see no growth and disappear by about 2040 as a religion
    • The group that goes softcore will be the younger and middle aged ones they have enough bible knowledge to win converts if they can lose the doomsday bull$hit and the hardcore doctrines (shunning, armageddon, holidays) I really can see them doing well for a longer time
  • ARoarer
    ARoarer

    You need something that breaks Witnesses free from the

    notion that Jehovah directs the Watchtower.

    Metatron, that will never happen, because with their circular thinking Dubs will believe if something big scandalizes the GB they'll just reason that Jehovah is cleaning out from within his so called directed organization and dealing with corrupt leaders as previously in the Bible.

    ARoarer

  • willyloman
    willyloman

    Seeker: What you wrote summarizes the situation precisely.

    I think the JWs reached their peak a decade or more ago, and the combination of weak leadership, the complete lack of scholarship, the dwindling financial support from the rank and file, the huge amount of negative information about the Witnesses readily available to anyone with access to a computer and the Internet, and the extremely active ex-JW community will combine to slowly erode the organization. Will it end in my lifetime? I doubt it. But it'll be far weaker and smaller in a couple more decades.

    Put me in the column with those who think the decline of the WT has already begun (starting with the November 1995 WT study article on the new "generation" teaching) and that the demise of the WTS will be gradual over decades. There will be no "big bang."

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