UN vs WT -It doesn't matter

by Dan B 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • LovesDubs

    My first really BIG "omygod" moment was when I read about the change in the Generation. I mean HUGE. I didnt actually DA until Jan 97 however. So when things like this UN thing come up and to the attention of the R&F the ripple wont necessarily be felt right away. Also, people are not DAing themselves as readily any more. They are walking away, ceasing to go to meetings, melting into obscurity. We may never hear about them, and the Jw "counting methods" might be way over what the actual number of Dubs is. People stay often because of their families being held spiritual captives by the Borg and are mentally gone. This pile of major FAUX PAS the WTS is committing and has committed will affect their numbers and numbers and MONEY are all that matter to these people in the tower. Individuals dont exist, congregations dont exist...its all about THEM and the preservation of THEM. They dont give a hang if you stay or go. You are expendable.

    When I saw that first LIE in front of my face...and yes they downplayed that TOO as of no consequence...it may me say "Ok..so what ELSE have they been lying to me about?" and I went and I LOOKED.

  • Nicodemus

    It DOES matter.

    The information is having an effect right now, as I write this. The word of mouth that's already starting to get around on this issue might surprise some.

  • detective

    Nic, can you give us a feel for what sort of buzz is going around?

  • Dan B
    Dan B

    Hi Bridgette,

    I can relate to what you said:

    "There's some dubs I know (my mother, for example) who, if they personally witnessed Jesus Christ or Jehovah himself coming down out of the sky, hovering right over Brooklyn and declaring "this org a bunch of crap! They are NOT my personal representatives!", would quietly wait on "new light" and accept whatever the "society" had to say in order to explain it."

    My mother is like that too. I offered to sit down with her, and her Bible, and Wt's and I would systematically show her how the WT society was deceiving her. She refused, stating that that is not what's important, but loyalty to the org. is the important issue. Truth, to her, is a secondary issue.

    That type of blind adherence to the org. is what prompted this post to begin with. And, unfortunately, her mindset is typical of the JW population. My father is like that, my relatives and so on. I've seen it for 30 years. True, information is readily available today, but, the conditioning to treat it like "poison" is deep rooted, and not easily dismissed. The 1914 generation about-face in 1995 didn't even raise an eyebrow with the JW's I knew.

    Every wrong that became apparent in the local congs. were dismissed as just being a local problem, not typical of the JW's world-wide. That way the org. remained protected. In other words, WE had the problem, not the Wt society. If something doesn't sit quite right in your mind, that is because YOU are weak, YOU are leaning upon your own understanding, YOU are committing secret sins. I went through this, as do many others I'm sure.

    Maybe it is different now, I've been out of touch with it for a few years. One can always hope!


  • Trilobite


    I know what you mean. My mother was like that. One day, several years ago, she stated that the Society had never had to retract anything they'd ever written. So I showed her the Awake! mastheads pre- and post the generation change (I had them with me for such an occasion). It really floored her and marked the start of a process which, after 3 years, has her almost on the point of leaving.

    Good luck,


  • Nicodemus


    I'm only one person, and this is merely anecdotal. However, at least a few individuals who are older and aren't even on the net have somehow been hearing about this through the grapevine, and wanted to know whether what they heard was true. Likely, they wanted to hear that it was not but, of course, it is. Older ones in particular might feel a sense of confusion, even betrayal, over this matter.

    Additionally, this issue is not one of deep doctrinal complexity, i.e. the blood issue, where arguments can fly back and forth all day. It becomes a question of consistency of action and teaching. Consider this issue in the light of the Society's strong denunciation of accepting employment from a false religious organization, and being paid by such, even if the actual job performed, and services rendered, have nothing to do with a religious act per se. They still have taken the position that this is "support" of false religion and ask that individual JWs refrain from taking such employment, even if they are unemployed and need to work.

  • JT


    Also, people are not DAing themselves as readily any more. They are walking away, ceasing to go to meetings, melting into obscurity.


    I agree with you 110%- i see more folks starting to realize that the ENTIRE CONCEPT OF DA oneself is a WT policy and they no longer want to be controled by wt. by following thru on a request of the wt-=

    while some may feel it gives them closure - COOL , but for me i realize that the entire DA program is the brainchild of the Legal Desk

    knowing how the system works , why play it

    if they want to annouce something about the wife and i they will have to do it on thier own-

    i wouldn't waste a $0.34 stamp or paper tell them.

    besides the purpose of DA or having a person "official DA" himself is so the WT can shut them DOWN

    THEY have already prepared the Rank and File as to how to respond the moment the annoucement is made- in fact jw have been prepared and rehearse what to do for yrs and so when one annouces they are DA- the Org has already trained Grandma as to what to do - and sure enough she does what she is told-

    but not to DA confuses the WT member--

    are you just weak, do you really have questions about the matter-they can't figure it out-

    if you have no one in the org then it matters not- but if you are like many who have family in- they may want to at least try

    well if you DA TOO EARLY you will not, but if you wait at least you will have tried

    i too often see jw jump before they are ready for what will follow and then it's too late,

    but each one must do what is best for them

    but i agree more folks are simply walking away and at least maintain some contact with family-

    one thing is for sure NOT DA oneself pisses the wt off


  • joelbear

    If 1% actually left, that is DA'd or became totally inactive, that is only 60,000 people. More than 60,000 will get baptized this year and will happily replace them.

    On a more optimistic note, while I do not believe people will actually sever their ties with the Watchtower on this issue, I do not doubt that a number of witness-affected people, especially the young, will recognize the hypocrisy and will factor that in when making their life decisions (ie, family, career and education). In my opinion, this is far more important than any consequences the Watchtower society itself will face.

    Improving people's lives who are witness-affected should be our goal not changing a set of statistics.


  • JT

    dan b


    . The 1914 generation about-face in 1995 didn't even raise an eyebrow with the JW's I knew.

    yes you are right- no MASS EXODUS- where are they going? SMILE

    all jokes aside though- the org fills a need in the avg jw and as has been stated truth is secondary

    here is a link that sheds some excellent info on the matter though

    this really helped me to fully understand the issue of CORRECT INFO AND STILL NOT GETTTING THE POINT

    How is that possible-
    see so many fight with this problem

    "I showed MOM all the articles,quotes, page number, i Xeroxed all that Sh!t and she still dont' get it"

    well this link sheds some good light as to WHY





  • dungbeetle

    That's a good point all of you are making. At my CO's visit last year, he specifically stated that approximately 10% of publishers are not turning in their time. Now why would someone go out in service, spend all that time and money, and NOT TURN IN THEIR TIME CONSISTENTLY?

    So even tho a JW may 'stand by my org' that doesn't mean they won't do 'nothing'. Field service hours are down, litter-ature placements can be down (place English magazines in a highly Hispanic-speaking area for instance).

    We know of many JW's who were elders/ms's and who 'stepped aside'. This kind of suffering in the org won't be told to us voluntarily. No doubt many pioneers have cut their hours as well. We just won't know. In the end the wT may just start either padding numbers or stop releasing figures altogether.

    Something that really really worries me.....recently from the platform at my KH I am hearing that teh numbers of 'the anointed' are decresing, isn't this wonderful? No scriptures are offered in proff of this MIND YOU....but what scares me is, right on this board we have members who professed a 'heavenly hope' who were teh subjects of 'witch hunts'.

    Has the org gotten so desparate to plaacate their members that they are systematically targeting partakers to get rid of them, to get those numbers down? And that does not even begin to deal with what happens when someone newly partakes in a congregation. We've all heard those stories.

    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

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