UN vs WT -It doesn't matter

by Dan B 43 Replies latest jw friends

  • dungbeetle

    <"They may react with a spasm of heavy-handedness; that could well be their undoing">

    I wondered and worried about that too. About whether this whole UN thing will spark another round of witch-hunting akin to that which occurred in Ray Franz's day.

    Sometimes people literally don't survive these things.

    A kinder gentler Watchtower---my a-s!!!


    Dungbeetle...so much dung, so little time...

  • MacHislopp

    Hello Dan B.

    thanks for your interesting post.

    Although it may look , on the surface, like you state,

    I do agree entirely with this comment, from Trilobite:

    "The WTS has flourished because of the absence of access to information. More and more young Dubs are going to college and accessing the internet. Tremendous changes have already occurred. This WT/UN thing will set them back because it will make it harder for the WTS to deal with government agencies, esp. if the publicity increases."

    Remember, that for the last few years the WTBS, has written and

    spoken against the " ...hidden dangers of the INTERNET .."!

    It is true, there are dangers such as pedophiles and similar

    things, but the main reason its the "...spreading of INFORMATIONs"

    about present and past dealings, teachings and views in the last

    130 years of the WTBS history. This kind of INFORMATION is really

    considered as a - great DANGERS - to the WTBS!!

    Thanks for sharing with us your opinion.

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

    " One who has an accurate knowledge
    of God's Word will have no problem
    in refuting false religious ideas".

  • Room 215
    Room 215


    I quite agree that, per se, the WTBTS' assoication with the UN was a constructive, progressive step. The incongruity of this action with their continued profession of revulsion and condemnation of the UN was, of course rank hypocrisy. Unlike the ``Plain Truthers'' they lack the moral courage to publicly face up to their mistakes, break with their past and move on. They seem incapable of understanding how this latter course would actually regain some of the respect of the disaffected, whose intelligence they continue to insult.

  • LittleToe


    once the toothpaste is out of the tube it cannot be put back

    Sadly they have the habit of trying to do just that.
    Unfortunately it is usually whilst everyone is otherwise distracted brushing their teeth.

    I can't see how they can get out of explaining this recent course of action, in the midst of the "Information Age".
    I think the waste paper baskets in the writing department will be overflowing with paper balls.
    As for whether or not they do comment, time will tell.
    I think it unlikely, personally.


  • joelbear

    I think the UN information will be irrelevant to 90% of witnesses. Most witnesses are emotionally tied to the Watchtower society because it provides them a security blanket, a feeling of self importance and a dream of immortality in paradise.

    I agree that thinking witnesses who have already have a life beyond Watchtower will find the information interesting and will probably recognize its accuracy and the hypocrisy involved. Of these 10%, a significant percentage are tied to the Watchtower through family and will thus not leave, another significant percentage are tied to the Watchtower through their social network and thus not leave.

    Maybe 1% of witnesses will view this as significant enough to rethink their association, but those same 1% will have already been doing that.

    Not saying that it is wrong to do this type of investigation. My point is that truth is not that relevant to most people's religious decision making.


  • Trilobite


    Excellent point. That is a huge worry in all of this.


  • Sirona


    Im not sure about your figures, maybe you are being overly pessimistic.

    Maybe 1% of witnesses will view this as significant enough to rethink their association, but those same 1% will have already been doing that

    Im not sure that this is right, I think that some who were not on their way out might be affected by the UN info.

    One member of my family is a faithful dub and has been really bothered by the UN thing. A pioneer I know is also asking me questions, tentatively.


  • Pathofthorns

    I think it would be a great thing if even 1% were directly affected by this issue. That translates to huge losses and huge losses of people that wont' be making baby JWs.

    Many Witnesses live in areas that are isolated from such information, or they choose to isolate themselves, so exposure to the facts is always limited. Since most will not be exposed to this issue and only propaganda statements from the 'slave', I think Joel's estimate is actually optimistic/realistic.

    I'd love to see a 1% drop due to this.


  • Bridgette

    Do I think this religious corporation will topple? No. Do I want it to? Not in particular. But what we do here is keep it honest. We are a watchdog group. There are sadly some who are in, who will be in for life, for various reasons, and nothing anyone says, or logically presents will change that. There's some dubs I know (my mother, for example) who, if they personally witnessed Jesus Christ or Jehovah himself coming down out of the sky, hovering right over Brooklyn and declaring "this org a bunch of crap! They are NOT my personal representatives!", would quietly wait on "new light" and accept whatever the "society" had to say in order to explain it ("it was a weather balloon"). Because most dubs are trained to worship their organization and not their diety. However, for those who DO think adn worship freely, the internet, and what we do here is vital. It's information. Information = Education = Freedom.

  • freeman

    So many good thoughts on this thread.

    In MHO this U. N. connection is very big, but ONLY TO SOME, only to those who’s hearts are ”rightly disposed”, LOL. A die-hard dub, the “social” type that depends on the Borg emotionally will have a very hard time, or perhaps may never see it at all. However, those that are in because of believing that the Borg is on the correct side of doctrine will hopefully see the hypocrisy at some point.

    I know for a fact that the social type, the dyed-in-the-wool dub, will have a very hard time seeing the hypocrisy, I know because I’m married to one such dub and her response so far has been:

    1.“It’s a lie, it’s a fake, and no I won’t even look at the U.N. web site and even if it were true, which I know it’s not, I’m sure they have a good reason so it really wouldn’t matter anyway.”

    2.“The source of this information has bad motives and I don’t see you showing the fruitage of the spirit, so why should I believe you?”

    Or put more succinctly: facts don’t matter and can be discounted when they come from someone that hates the org or doesn’t put in enough field service hours. Well that certainly makes perfect sense, NOT!

    For me it’s been frustrating, and so far a no win situation with her. Sometimes I want to take her pretty little head, AND TWIST IT OFF! Oh sorry about that, no offence meant to women, (just venting, not a wife beater :) But then I calm down and realize she is not the perpetrator, she too is a victim just as so many of us have been victims of this wicked organization, she just still has the blinders on.

    Now on the other hand, my un-baptized 12-year-old son has been shown the U.N. web site, (he loves the Internet :) and at least concurs with me that the WTBTS is/was connected with the U.N. I’m waiting for the listing of NGOs to be updated so I can show him that the name was removed.
    Maybe my wife is right after all, because GOD I DO SO HATE THE Borg!!!

    Thanks for letting me rant.


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