http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqUUNtL1rTw8yeZSxgHq7fDd7BR.?qid=20070701134837AAxJcd8 Should I have linked back to one of the good discussions here? Check out some of the answers I am getting.
Posted a question about the cross/stake on Yahoo
by rassillon 20 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
-
jwfacts
Great question. I dont know the answer, was there an alternate Greek word for cross at that time?
I posted an answer addressing why the Watchtower is wrong to say Jesus died on a stake.
-
Leolaia
Mostly answers derived from Watchtower literature and/or reasoning.
JWs, if as you claim stauros is properly translated "stake/torture stake" what would have been the correct Greek word to use if Jesus had died on a cross?
Excellent question, as this gets to the heart of the matter. The Romans did use two-beamed crosses at the time, if stauros did not refer to them, what other word would have referred to them?
stavros comes from the word Stavrosi, which means in english 'crucifixion'. It might just be that Constantine the Great used this word for an adoptive name of the symbol of the sun.
Wrong. Constantine has nothing to do with anything. And the cross symbol should not be confused with the Roman instrument of execution, which is what the term stauros refers to in the NT. The Watchtower regularly confuses the two.
first Jesus himself told that he would die in and stake (John 3:14 and Numbers 21:7) the problem is not the word is the symbol that is pagan, the cross could be called "PAPA" but the symbol cross is a pagan symbol, that represent Tammuz God, and means the male´s sexual organ.
Completely false. Again, we're talking about a means of execution -- not a SYMBOL. The Romans were not putting putting people to death on symbols. The kind of shape the execution instrument had has NOTHING, ZILCH to do with "pagan worship". The shape could be whatever the executioner wanted it to be, though classical records show that it tended to have a crossbeam (patibulum). Second, this person has no awareness of the fact that a "stake" even more fittingly conforms to a "phallic" shape than a cross with a crossbeam. Third, the bit about "Tammuz" has nothing to do with reality; this was an idea long discredited of Alexander Hislop.
The word used would have been - anastauroô. Very different than the one used.
No, that's just the verbal form.
-
Leolaia
jwfacts....I dealt with this issue in my thread on the subject, which investigated all the early Greek and Latin sources on the matter:
-
Hortensia
Leolaia, who ARE you? You are so well-informed, I'm awestruck.
-
barry
The most amazing thing is the WT Society lists there opinion on this as a major doctrine. It comes from memory about third in their list of doctrines.
-
Metamorphosis
True Christians (such as Jehovah's Witnesses) do not behave in such a "brainwashed" manner, and in fact true Christians (such as Jehovah's Witnesses) spend little time arguing about the exact shape of Christ's instrument of impalement. As true disciples of Christ, Jehovah's Witnesses do not distract from his message of the good news by going around denouncing the worshipful use of the cross and other idols.
check out the paragraph above. it was given as one of the responses on the yahoo site.
1) jw's don't behave in a brainwashed manner
2) the repeated use of true Christians in reference to JW's
3) JW"s are the ONLY ones i have ever heard that make this a big issue. i am sure there are others, however jw's have it at the fore much more than anybody else.
-
jeanV
the best answer is this one:
With all due respect, it actually makes little or no difference whether the Lord Jesus Christ died on a cross or a stake. The important thing is that He sacrificed Himself to pay the penalty for our sins, and that through faith in His sin-atoning death and resurrection, TRUE Christians are FREELY justified in God's sight, as the Bible teaches (see Romans 3:23 - 26, for example).
The fact that organisations such as the Watchtower spend so much time with theological hair-splitting on issues such as this is symptomatic of the cult mentality, which often majors on minors. Straining out gnats, and swallowing camels...
Ephesians 2:8 & 9.Amazing how the WT spends time and energy on issues like this one, and are superficial on other more important ones such as 607...
-
TheListener
Leolaia's information on the cross/stake issue is excellent!
If you have any interest at all on this subject, then Leo's posts on the subject are a must read.