Richie's Random Thoughts: Moral Ambiguity (page 2)

Warlock

For me, this subject is too deep to discuss on the internet. It must be discussed in person, but that is MY opinion, black, white or grey.

Warlock

SPAZnik

Lovely post, Richie.

I recently found this theoretical model suggesting stages of moral development interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development

restrangled

Hey Richie,

Be a skeptic about books. The book you mentioned was a very popular read at the time, but does not make it legit no matter who is recommending it.

Yes, I read the book, but I was not impressed. This was one of Oprah's famous "reads."....I have found anything she recommends pretty shallow.

Stay true to yourself . I would like to recommend a few of my own. Take or leave as you see fit.

"The Kite Flyer"...for understanding of the middle eastern religions.

"The Womens Room" For understanding of the 50/60's house wife...and big in-site into women in general

"Papillion" For understanding the French prison system.

" A day On Fire"....the life of a French poet....a fascinating must read.

I have many more recommendations. Just let me know.

I am sure others here have many more.

r.

SPAZnik

Hey restrangled...have you read "New Passages" or "Pathfinders" by Gail Sheahy? By the titles you recommend and review I wonder if you might enjoy them.

Spaznik, Thank you for your suggestions, but I tend to read history over anything else. I have probably read well over 500 to 1000 plus books in my life time. I have become very particular about what I read at this point. Can you give me some input as to the books you are recommending?

r.

jgnat

Great thoughts, Richie. I dealt with moral relativism by coming up with a short list of underlying principles. In any situation, what is the underlying principle that would govern my actions? My favorites right now are "Do no harm", and "Reverence for life." But of course, they are modified by "Do no harm...as far as you know (who can see the future?)" "And reverence for life...but a murdered slug is forgiven, if my prize Azalea is spared." So as you can see, I am a work in progress.

Another eye-opening book for me, "The Idiot" by Doesteovsky. The author is astoundingly accurate in his assessment of people - their shallowness, and their motives. No-one, neither poor or rich, vain or noble, hearty or frail, escape his sharp observation.

JamesThomas

First, that was a hell of an eloquent post. It's as if there is a 180 year old wise man living in there with you.

Richie:

Where does gray become white or black?

As has already been mentioned the potential for all and everything is here. However, the solidification into stark blacks and whites may appear when our opinions and beliefs become incorporated into our sense of identity. There is a sense of comfort and security for the egoic-self when it makes its stand on what it casts into rigid and concrete structures of "certainty". On the other hand, grays are murky, uncertain, unpredictable and since they do not offer the protection of our solid walled black and white little boxes they are -- frightening. IMO

j

freedomloverr

****s it ok for a kid to steal a book from a church building, knowing that it has the potential free others from lies?****

WOW! I remember that little incident and the OPINIONS flew around here.....

I remember never commenting because I could see this whole grey area that many people were ignoring. It was very black and white to most of the posters...

all I can say is about this thread is "HIGH FIVE RICHIE" (holding my hand up to give you 5 big smackaroos.)

Blueblades

Richie have you read the true account of the soccer team that crashed in the Andes Mountain? They made a movie about it called "ALIVE!" The survivors had to choose whether they would starve to death or eat the frozen bodies of those who died. They decided to eat the bodies and they survived.

Cannibalism kept them alive! Was it immoral to do this? By immoral we are not talking about sexual behavior. We are talking about acceptable principles of right and wrong behavior. Does this line up with your topic on Moral Ambiguity? Think of the relatives of those who were eaten.

Blueblades

SPAZnik

Hey restrangled!

no worries, those were mere suggestions and I will take no offense whether you read them or don't. :)

By way of response to your request for a bit more info:

I found "New Passages" (a followup to her book Passages, which I didn't bother reading) a very dense but moderately interesting read. Kind of looks at the 'long view' of "life passages" and a bird's eye view of (North American) generational trends in a way that personally made me relate a little more compassionately to the perspectives of "generations" other than my own. As I overheard a wise guy once remark, "we are prisoners of our times". This book revealed to me some of the ways that this is/has been true.

I found "Pathfinders" interesting on a level relevant to people pushing out of societal 'ruts' (my words). Just interesting food for thought based on the histories of various individuals (as opposed to countries). As I recall, it seemed somewhat geared toward or more depicting of North American culture, so that may be one limitation of the book, depending on how you want to look at it. I found myself putting up with Sheahy's effort to classify "certain" people as "Pathfinders" to get to the real meat of what practical tactics and common principles have worked, in the lives of those she interviewed, according to her perspective, in forging a path uniquely their own.

Sheahy takes something of what might be a behavioral science researcher approach in interviewing her 'subjects' (about their own histories, "as it happens") and compiling her final synopsis. To me anyway, it read like a sociology thesis, so was a bit heavy/dry/laborious in parts, but that said, I also took some inspiration from and quite enjoyed the stories of people. Best of all it kind of helped me get over my story in a way, and feel less secluded from the rest of humanity, just because of my JW history. I could really relate and kind of got over myself in a way. Reading her books satiated something in me. The kind of story-telling I would have liked to have enjoyed sitting with generations of my family in a sharing circle. But that's just me.

Sheahy also wrote a book called The Man Who Changed the World. I haven't had the chance to read it yet, but it purports to be an intimate portrayal of Gorbachev, the man, the leader and his effects.

In bridging with Richie's topic of morality, I guess these books somewhat apply in that human morals and values naturally come into play especially when serious life-altering decisions are at hand, though I don't believe these books were written in that context. Sheahy even seems a little, uh, 'hellbent' on ensuring she's interviewing "real people" as opposed to "saints".

Thanks for letting me share. As you were. ;)

S.

Richie's Random Thoughts: Moral Ambiguity

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