Help! Calling all Ex-Elders for advice on Appeal Commitee Situation

by flipper 46 Replies latest jw friends

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  flipper

  Hello guys, Mr. Flipper here. Here's the deal, I'll try to be brief, hard for me. Mrs. Flipper and I got married last October, but before that one month before,my 18 year old daughter, her mom, my ex from 1998 and her husband came incognito one Sat. morning to catch me and the mrs. in some kind of compromising position. I had just come to her house to take her to get her car fixed and that's all, but the ex and my daughter tried to say we were together cohabiting. They live 90 miles away and came to do this. I denied this, it was all circumstantial, then daughter and her mom proceed to call my believing family older brother, mom and dad, etc. on the phone saying I had sinned. This was in August. 2 months later get a phone call from my former elders saying they wanted to meet with me about alleged fornication. I said, "My wife and I are married and no we didn't commit fornication. please leave us alone. There's nothing to talk about." That was November. Then 3 months later they send a letter wanting a jc meeting with me.I called the chairman, left a message saying that my daughters accusations are false, there is nothing here. Don't want to meet with you.Then 2 months later 2 elders show up saying I'm disfellowshipped for circumstantial fornication.I said,"What? Did anybody see me commit this act? They said ,"No." So they dfed me in absentia cause I didn't go to the meeting. They said I could appeal, and that's what I did. Wrote a letter stating this was a vendetta thing from my ex-wife and no substance to charges. So in May my 22 year old fading son went as a witness to this appeal meeting supporting my side stating my wife and I didn't live together before our marriage, and supported my character sending him to college, etc. The elders seemed taken aback by my son and my straightforward yet respectful prescence and both stories jived. So the original jc and appeal jc sent us out. Then 30 to 40 minutes later I went back in, and the appeal chairman said,"We can't come to a decision but we'll let you know by phone in a couple weeks. Finally after over a month I got a call from the appeal chairman and on the message he said,"We'd like to meet with you again maybe next weekend or the one after." My question what the hell do they want to meet with me for? Can't they just tell me their decision over the phone? It's a 90 mile drive there, major inconvinience, my son and I have alot of work the next few weeks, and my witness parents who have respected my fading, up to now, are coming to visit my wife my son and I in three weeks. So you see my dilemma? I'm working to stall these guys so I can visit my parents, in their 80's. They like my wife, son ,and myself. Any suggestions??? I'm thinking of calling the chairman and asking what was the decision over the phone? Or, tell him I'm swamped with work till the end of July, that way my parents can visit, and I'll meet with these anal dweebs after the visit. All advice is welcome, please. Peace to you all, Mr. Flipper
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  rebel8

  Maybe tell them you can't afford the gas so they can either come to you or do it by telephone.
  
  Might be a good idea to let them know you have counseled your daughter for imputing wrong motives, being disrespectful to your fatherly authority, and falsely accusing a brother. Say you were shocked to see this behavior and are concerned her stepdad/mother are not leading her properly as Xian parents. IOW turn the tables.
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  Open mind

  You are at their mercy. If there's any chance of you avoiding the axe, you've got to make sure none of the attitude that is contained in your post leaks out. Not even a peep.

  Pucker up and kiss every backside in sight. Yes it's Jehovah's Org. Yes I need to get to the meetings. I'll try. I've been a little down and ill. I'm sorry if I caused any inconvenience to you hard working brothers. I should have been more sensitive to the consciences of others during my courtship. Blah, blah, blah.

  If you do all that, you MIGHT have a chance.

  Open Mind
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  OUTLAW

  Successfull appeals are few and far between..Why waste any more time?..They have all the power you give them.How much more do you think they deserve?...OUTLAW
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  willyloman

  Without all the details, I can't know what is going on behind the scenes. But from what you've told me, filtered through my 20+ years as an elder who was appointed to several appeal committees, here's my best guess:

  They were stumped at your appeal hearing, which is why they told you they needed "a couple of weeks" to come to a decision. In fact, they had already reached one decision: to phone the CO who appointed them,and ask for help. That may have led to another phone call to Bethel for guidance.

  Assuming that likely scenario, they probably want to meet with you now to ask you the specific questions that were handed down. Those questions probably came with instructions, such as: "If he says this-and-such, you do so-and-so, and if he says yadda-yadda, then you would yadda-yadda."

  Edited to answer your other question (what to do): Since it's 90 miles away, a weekend is the only time you can all be there. You have no obligation to make yourself available immediately. They have put you off, you have a schedule, you have a job and have to work the next two weekends and have made travel plans for the following week. However, you would be happy to meet with them in four weeks (or the first reasonable opportunity you have).

  This assumes you even want to meet with them. It is possible that the only question(s) they have been told to ask are ones loaded to ascertain what your intentions are as respects being an active dub. It sounds like, technically, they don't have a cause to DF you for fornication. But their instinct would be to try to get you on some other charge. They just hate reversing themselves.
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  AWAKE&WATCHING

  I completely agree with Outlaw. I would try to hold them off until after parents visit though.

  I can't believe they don't have enough sin where they are without trying to chase you down.
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  ex-nj-jw

  Just lie to them, tell them what they want to hear they don't know the difference they are not spirit guided!

  On the other hand - seems like they are out to get you and nothing you do will matter one way or the other!

  Just my two cents

  nj
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  flipper

  Thanks!! You guys. I really appreciate all your great advice! I think I will try to stall them and say I've got a big contract to finish and won't have any time available till end of July to meet. My fading son told me I should set up an appointment with them late July, then back out at the last minute and say to them,"I've given you all the time you need on this. I've told you everything, no need to meet.Then tell them whatever decision they make, I'm still going to talk to my parents. I don't observe your unjust treatment of me." Of course that's a 22 year old university attending spunky young ex-jdub talkin'. Don't know about that yet. But if you guys have more advice for me, please think about it, I'm all ears and open to listening. Thanks, sincerely, Mr. Flipper
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  sinis

  Play the hardship card - gas, time, work, etc. Tell them to meet you half way - or at a local cong in your town. If they are going to reverse their decision, I bet they make the attempt. If they know deep down inside that you are screwed, they will not make the gesture as they have nothing to lose. Then you know your decision. I would venture to ask them where is the two witness rule, especially since your son vouched for you.

  And you want to know how to get back at your ex?????

  I denied this, it was all circumstantial, then daughter and her mom proceed to call my believing family older brother, mom and dad, etc. on the phone saying I had sinned.

  This is called slander and is a disfellowshipping offence. I would work really hard at trying to fuck them back over for getting involved in your life. Even if they DF you for failure to adhere to policy (you didn't show up) I would straight out ask them if you are being DF'd for fornication. If they say no inform them that you want to file charges against your ex for slander.
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  SnakesInTheTower

  Mr. flipper... I went back through your posts back to about april...trying to get a handle on where you are as a jw/exjw. appears you have been inactive 4 years and have moved away from your old congo. I am guessing you never had your card forwarded to the nearest congo to where you are...just tried to fade away...almost successful too (damn ex-wife)

  mr flipper, I am trying to figure out the timetable here. Aug/Sept 06, ex-wife and daughter try to catch you and mrs. flipper in compromising position (nothing to catch, not stopping the ex from accusing you). You and mrs flipper get married in Oct 06. Nov 06 you get a call from your former (technically still your current) elders wanting to meet for an inquisition. You decline. Fast forward to Feb 07, you get a letter inviting you to a BorgInquisition. Is this all correct?

  Assuming it is, why did they wait 2 months (what Mar/Apr 07?) to D/F you? Did they announce this before they told you were D/F, or has the announcement been held in abeyance while this appeal goes through? Are you D/F now (exhiled to Shunville) or in D/F BorgLimbo (meaning, no privleges, but you are not yet exhiled officially to Shunville?)

  So now you appeal in May 07 and here it is almost the end of JUNE 07, 10 months after the initial accusation? WTF? I am curious that the chairman admitted they could not come to a decision. They are not supposed to tell you that they did not agree or even that they are leaning toward no decision unless it is to uphold the original committee decision. They should have just said we have a couple more questions. The fact that they are delaying this whole thing rather than just uphold the original committee tells me that one or more elders on the Appeals committee has some serious doubts about the original decision. Since it is your ex-wife making the accusation, her testimony should have been seriously questioned in the first place.

  Oh yes, the CO is definitely involved, since he is the one who chooses the appeals committee (usually from within the circuit, but sometimes outside depending on ties to the accused). Yes, I think am certain the BorgServiceDepartment has been contacted.

  I have some inside knowledge of the process at BorgService assuming I was informed correctly (please dont ask how, I just do, and no I never was a bethelite/CO, etc). As someone else said here, it is rare that an appeals committee decides opposite of the original committee. (And rarer for the original committee to be reversed by Service.) If the appeals committee either decides opposite or no decision, then it goes to BorgService for a decision. That is not just a flip of a coin. I know procedure there, and they have procedures for just about any imaginable scenario that could be thrown their way. Tons and tons of old JC case studies. It could stop at the brother at the state desk in consult with others in BorgService. It could go to the service desk committee of the branch (US in this case?)...it could go to the Service Committee of the GB. In extreme cases, it could go to the GB...although you (and the local elders) will never know how far up it goes before a decision is sent back. However, this could be a lengthy process the further it goes. There may be tons of phone calls and/or letters going back and forth between BorgService, Appeals, Original, CO, DO, depending on who gets involved.

  Your case does not seem that complicated. I think ultimately you will be ruled against. I say this because you do not have "works befitting repentance", meaning you are not at meetings, FS, etc.....so even if you did nothing (and I have no reason to believe you did anything wrong even in the eyes of the Borg...this is just your exwife exercising a vendetta), you have not been to the meetings, so out of the Borg you go. I am surprised it has gone this far in the appeals process. Most appeals committees I dealt with would have said "4 years inactive? forgeddaboudim!"

  The only reason to go forward is a) to mess with them b) to try to show JW family you still care what the Borg thinks c)to maintain contact with the JW family. Some say why bother. Others say fight em. I have no advice, just info. PM if this is confusing or you have questions..... I wish you well. Your avatar always makes me smile.

  SnakesInTheTower (of the "still have a toe trapped in the Borg" Sheep Class)