Comments You Will Not Hear at the 6-17-07 WT Study (DO NOT PUT APART)

by blondie 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Great work again, Blondie.

    My brain aches when I read the weekly harangue; how did I ever sit through it?

    The WT will never acknowledge that marriage is a PARTNERSHIP of equals.

    (There is the OT model, and the NT model, closely following the OT model; logical, since the early christians were only briefly removed from the stifling worldview of the Law. Where is there ever any nod to the reality of marriage? Men are not stronger than women; they are strong in different areas. Weaker vessel? You mean that women, who bear and raise children, are somehow weaker than men? The men who write this detached and antique essay on marriage don't understand or appreciate the strength of women, and continue to describe them as weaker than men. Amazing.)

    Where to begin?

    1. So marriage is like a road trip? Does that mean that it has a beginning and an end? Can we take different roads and still get there? Can we take our OWN route there? Can we take along mad money and decide to get to the destination by ourself? ONE MORE BAD ANALOGY FROM THE WTS, who routinely use analogies to buttress an unsupportable position.

    2. "At 1 Corinthians 7:28, the Bible candidly states that husbands and wives would have "tribulation in their flesh." Ah, the wonderful attitude of Paul, a Pharisee with a thin christian veneer. Paul was a woman hater; he would not let them talk in the congregation; he talked of their sexual impulses, talked of them gadding about the houses. (I wonder what he would make of the elders gossipping? I have a brother who lives in another state, and he knows before I do who will get df'd in my hall!!)

    3. I agree with Moggy; the WT has dissected the body of marriage without understanding its dynamic nature; to hear the same phrases again and again has put marriage related issues into the realm of the theoretical. You have the spiritual ones, the physical ones, and the (gulp) sexual ones, described as "needs". (God almighty; is that what the union of two people who love each other deeply is to them? A physical need, that's it? They are so squeamish it is comical. Every time they discuss marriage I feel like I am in junior high again, with the teacher squirming as sex is discussed.)

    This is disturbing to me:

    "In the modern world, when some couples encounter problems, their first reaction is to end the marriage. In many lands, divorce rates are spiraling out of control. However, true Christians handle problems rather than run from them. Why? Because they view marriage as a sacred gift from Jehovah. Jesus said regarding married couples: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matthew 19:6) Granted, living by that standard is not always easy. For instance, relatives and others--including some marriage counselors--who do not recognize Bible principles often encourage couples to separate or divorce on unscriptural grounds.*"

    Others; would that include concerned friends who see that one or the other partner is close to suicide because they are NOT compatible with their marriage mate and are being made to feel they are deficient christians because they want to end the marriage?

    Can the WT EVER come to grips with the fact that most members would rather work through their marriage problems but sometimes they CANNOT? The WT seems obsessed with the very small fraction that might just bail on a marriage for less than stellar reasons, and can't understand how to deal with it. So, the iron hand descendds on the entire fellowship.

    4. The WT is so very adept at demeaning those who make it their life work to help others: ". Or they may, like others, be lost somewhere in that maze of marriage theorists and atheistic professionals."

    With just the use of loaded language, their favorite smear tactic, they dismiss people who have between 4 and 8 years of education and sit through countless hours of interviews with married people in crisis. The WT's answer? Follow the rules of a small group of desert dwellers who viewed women as property.

    5. So are they experts or not? "At times, you may need to ask for help from an experienced married Christian elder." OK; if I ask them for help, I assume they have some training or experience, some reason for me to trust them, right? Yet the WT states that the elders act on their own, and are untrained volunteers.

    6. "A man who cherishes his wife is a source of refreshment to her " What does this stilted sentence mean? It is as if they are so detached from the reality of relationships they view it all as an intellectual exercise. "If a man loves a woman, what would the result look like?" I don't understand how they can be so removed from reality.

    7."In imitation of Jesus, a Christian husband treats his wife in the same way that Jesus treated the congregation." Is this flawed comparison of a marriage to the congregation the reason the WT is so squeamish about the sexual dynamic in marriage? I know that some will object to this, but Jesus and the congregation are NOTHING like the marriage between man and wife. Men and women fall in love and marry for reasons that are often not understood; is that the model for Jesus and his brothers, er, wife? STOP using this analogy, WT; it does NOT work they way you are using it.

    8. That QFR about sex is the most abominable article they have written about sex in their history. They are OBSESSED with biological functions as being evil. In their view, a male or female who satisfies a biological urge in the privacy of their own home, with the aid of pictures or video, commits a sin. Of course, in the Bible view (also obsessed with sexual matters, at least the OT) it takes another REAL LIVE PERSON to commit "fornication". They take the statements from Paul about the nature of some in the congregation, and turn them into mandates to shun any who they think are not living up.

    This is evil:

    "To determine whether judicial action is warranted, they must carefully look at what happened and the extent to which it was done...

    Elders should carefully and prayerfully weigh each situation and find out what occurred and how often, the nature and extent of the misconduct, and the intent and motive of the wrongdoer."

    So now the elders are told to inquire deeply into the sexual history of a member, and are told that it is possible for them to determine MOTIVE, AND INTENT.

    &*(&^(&!!...SOMEONE HAD SEX, GET OVER IT! The motive and intent was to have sex, you morons!! It comes with being human. SEX is not evil. It can have consequences, talk about that instead.

    How about discussing the truly evil side of your obesssion with sex, like the requirement of having 2 witnesses to child sexual abuse? Oh yeah, never mind; that is not your responsibility now, is it, Ted J and the governing body??

    By the way, how are the payoffs going?

    PISTOFF

  • justicehope
    justicehope

    Blonde: Thank you for taking the time to provide this information.

  • keyser soze
    keyser soze

    I'm so sorry that I have to miss that! Actually, about a quarter of a way down I skipped the WT part and just read Blondie's comments. I couldn't stomache the rest.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Thanks Blondie!

    I got a better title for this article- Do not put apart what the WT cult has yoked together- it's bad for business.

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS

    3) In the modern world (non jws), when some couples encounter problems, their first reaction is to end the marriage. In many lands, divorce rates are spiraling out of control. However, true Christians handle problems rather than run from them. Why? Because they view marriage as a sacred gift from Jehovah. Jesus said regarding married couples: "What God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matthew 19:6) Granted, living by that standard is not always easy. For instance, relatives and others--including some marriage counselors--who do not recognize Bible principles often encourage couples to separate or divorce on unscriptural grounds.* (Footnote: *- See the box "Divorce and Separation" in Awake! February 8, 2002, page 10, published by Jehovah's Witnesses.)(see below) But Christians know that it is far better to repair and maintain a marriage than to dissolve it hastily. Indeed, it is vital that at the outset we resolve to do things Jehovah's way--not according to the counsel of others.-Proverbs 14:12.

    In my congregation which had only 56 publishers,there have been 6 divorces due to infidelity. Each one left very quickly after being caught. Now,none of them are paying child support. It seems funny when I read that "true Christians handle problems rather than run from them." Who writes this crap? The divorce rate at the Kingdom Halls are just about the same as"the modern world(non JWS). They are just better in hiding all the dirt. Why don't they ever address the issue of divorces in the ''TRUE CONGREGATION'' ?

    Blondie

    Thank you for your hard work in reading this garbage. I can't get thru it any longer. My brain swells from all this drivel.

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    I have opened this thread up about four times now, I think I got it all read. Thanks for the hard work, Blondie.

    I always found it to be very cruel, that the only grounds for divorce could be adultry. Yet, seperation was ok for non-support, abuse and spiritual endangerment.

    The innocent person is bound to the erring mate, for as long as they do not commit adultry. So the ulitimate weakness and sin in this situation is fornication.

    If thats not bad enough.

    THEN, the innocent mate has to catch them committing fornication! What a cute little game that is.

    I was raised Catholic so there was no grounds for divorce, then at least with the JW's there was a way, and how wonderful I got a scriptual divorce, after years of beatings, affairs, gambling, and yes even sometimes he would not have money for groceries, or to fix things like the dryer! and I was hanging clothes on the line for a family of seven! (VENTING here)

    So, I thought the JW way was kind, until I saw how unfair it was that if the spouse could do virtually anything they wanted to you less adultry you were forever bound. Not able to seek a partner, like a forever punishment.

    I sat in KH for years, listening to the advice from the platform on looking for a mate. Make sure they are spiritual, meeting attendance, do they pioneer? etc etc Still that message that even the ones that were JW's and believed in God the same way you did was not enough.

    Never once did I hear them say, Do you have the same interests? are you sure you are ready for marriage? Do you LOVE this person?

    This year I will be divorced 20 years. Maybe someday I will marry again, this may be my ultimate challenge.

    purps

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    That's odd... the bible also says that a wife should call her husband "Lord".

    I've never heard a JW wife call her husband "Lord".

  • bernadette
    bernadette
    15) Paul also stated that a wife "should have deep respect for her husband." A Christian wife should manifest a "quiet and mild spirit," not arrogantly challenging her husband or taking an independent course. (1 Peter 3:4) A godly wife works hard for the good of the household and brings honor to her head. (Titus 2:4, 5) She will endeavor to speak well of her husband and thus do nothing to cause others to disrespect him. She will also work hard to make his decisions succeed.-Proverbs 14:1.
    not arrogantly challenging her husband or taking an independent course...works hard for the good of the household...speak well of her husband and thus do nothing to cause others to disrespect him.
    she will also work hard to make his decisions succeed
    ^Even if they have failed ten times before or are not based on "scriptural principles"? What about Abigail, what would have happened if she had made Nabal's decisions "succeed."
    ^There's one NT example they failed to mention in this article. She disobeyed and saved herself, her husband, and all his household from being slaughtered by David for failing to show hospitality. I wonder why that isn't a df'ing offense; it would have resulted in someone's execution?

    para 15 had me

    In the message bible proverbs 14:1 is transalated "Lady wisdom builds a lovely home; Sir fool comes along and tears it down brick by brick."

    thanks blondie

    bernadette

  • truthsearcher
    truthsearcher

    There is always something about the way that articles are written that seem rather strange to me. It is as if they are trying really hard to be intellectual--but the end result is a writing style that is stilted, aloof (and somehow nauseating). I don't think that Jesus ever talked in this way to his followers. He used their language, he conveyed his true love and concern.

    I decided to have a try at re-writing the opening paragraph to see if it would have a better "feel". In doing so, I discovered that the writers are "padding" them with extra words. They would have been ripped apart by my English professors.

    Here is my attempt--does it seem more "real" to you?

    Imagine that you are about to embark on a long road trip. Will you face challenges along the way? You would be naive to assume otherwise. For instance, severe weather might make it necessary to slow down and drive with caution. Or perhaps you’ll have a mechanical problem that requires you pull over and call AAA. Would you then conclude that your trip was a mistake and that you should abandon the car? Not likely! It would be smart to anticipate problems and ways that you could deal with them.

  • garybuss
    garybuss
    The Watchtower June 15 2000 pp. 16-17
    Honor Those Taking the Lead
    "16 Congregation elders are appointed by holy spirit, . . ."



    Below is the real way elders are appointed:

    PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDATE
    Page 8
    Proceeding #4374
    Napa County Court Case no. 26-22191
    SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA
    NAPA COUNTY


    June 26, 2006
    Robert J. Schlock
    Attorney for WTB&TS

    2. Overview of clergy for the Jehovah's Witnesses
    Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses are not led by a priest or pastor but instead by appointed lay clergy called elders. Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses are provided spiritual oversight on a local level by a small group of elders recognized as ordained ministers and ordained elders. (See Exh B, pp. 285-86, 292, 297.) Elders are not automatically appointed to serve in a congregation. Rather they must meet strict Scriptural qualifications as outlined in the Bible and must also be recommended and approved by current congregation elders, an elder serving as circuit overseer, and the Service Department at the U.S. Branch Office Jehovah's. (See Exh. B, pp. 285-86.) Once an individual is approved and appointed to serve as a congregation elder, a letter from the Branch Office is read to the congregation and the person is officially vested with ministerial authority and is ordained as an elder. (See Breaux Affidavit 6.)

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