When I was in the borg, I had no idea of the stories my grandparents (both WWII vets) were telling me. Now that I've done my tour, and can relate to some the stories that these 'weirdo war vets' have told me, I'm starting to get it. Here's some thoughts... Most of what's done in the military is done to impress your superiors. If the response to what you've done is 'wow, that's hard core', or 'that's high speed', you can go home happy. Bear in mind, I am well aware of the emotional attachment that soldiers get to their comrades when they're in the shit. It's been well over a year now, but it kills me when I worry about my brothers in arms when they had to go back for a second tour. I got lucky and got arthritis. Why do WWII vets keep quiet about what they saw? They are truly the 'greatest generation'. I talked to a war vet not to long ago and he said that he has seen recently the same decency from the Iraqi war vets coming home. Something that resembles the WWII vets. Why? I love my grandpa (Pacific theatre). I just wish my other gramps was around to tell me other war stories (Battle of the Bulge). I was too young to understand. Makes me realize that what I've seen and done is so insignificant. All you vets, send me your war stories. I thrive on that shit. Depressed and rambling, Andrew
All you ex-military, check it out...
by troucul 24 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
RichieRich
I have a good friend who originally was Psy Ops out of Fort Bragg, NC.
He got blown through a wall in Iraq before he was discharged for medical reasons.
He now works with Customs Enforcement for Homeland Security.
Some of the stories he told me about how things were haunt my dreams.
I think its soooo important that America stand behind its troops, and know that they're suffering is not in vain.
-
frankiespeakin
Lets all march down the street with our red white and blue flag waving, blow up the bad guys, let thier guts splatter, we are the good guys as we have been indoctrinated by our government to beleive.
-
troucul
Evidently there are people who believe that the boundaries that have been drawn by our forefathers are not worth fighting for. From the beginning of time, nations, peoples, etc., fight for land, borders, idealogies, and in some cases, women. This will not change, nor should it. There is no Val Halla, Nirvana, 'new system', or Utopia. If anyone wants to believe in paradise, then go and be a JW. But liberal minded people should stop dreaming of such. That's just my opinion though. I ain't no flag waving conservative, but I will shed a tear for those who are willing to place their lives in harm's way for my way of life. And in the meantime, soldiers will fight and die for a person's right to criticize why and what soldiers are doing.
-
frankiespeakin
Tru,
I beleive we have all been brainwashed by the US government thru propaganda starting at a very early age. And those that are in the military are exposed to much more indoctrination from the government to get them to fight and kill with out questioning the command.
-
Who are you?
I beleive we have all been brainwashed by the US government thru propaganda starting at a very early age. And those that are in the military are exposed to much more indoctrination from the government to get them to fight and kill with out questioning the command.
frankiespeakin....anything you say about voting, military training, service to country, patriotism is speculation. It is highly inappropriate and very poor manners to come on to a thread that speaks specifically to ex-vets and layout your ridiculous "look at me, I don't vote" agenda.
troucul...thank you for your service!
-
carla
Hey Troucul, Thanks for serving! Looking for stories? Maybe over here there may be some http://forum.gruntsmilitary.com/index.php maybe at Sgt Grit too? There are others as well.
I have seen a number of stories where the old vets are going to schools and telling their stories. Maybe someone should visit the vets hospitals and VFW's and tape recored some!
Frank,
You don't know what the hell you are talking about. -----
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
--John Stewart Mill--A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living.
--John F. Kennedy--Once we have a war there is only one thing to do. It must be won. For defeat brings worse things than any that can ever happen in war.
--Ernest Miller Hemmingway--People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
--George Orwell--
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a difference in the world, but the Marines don't have that problem.
--Ronald Reagan--Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much.
--Oscar Wilde-- -
wozadummy
Well carla Hemingway did'nt have it right did he? Japan prospered at least financially after the war and did'nt have a God like dictator ruling them after WW11
-
carla
To educate Frank here is something by one of the leading (now deceased) cult researchers in the world. While she is comparing the Marines any branch of the service could apply here. There also was an article about the military and those who wish to compare it to cults showing the walk-away results. When one leaves a cult they often lose all family, education is often lacking, etc.... When one leaves the military they often leave with a usable skill, college education money, and other benefits. At no time are they restricted from having contact with family (with the exception of war time and the safety of the troops, but letters do still eventually make it through). And as most are aware the bond created with other men & women in the service is often a life long bond in or out of the service. Unlike the cults.
In the US our military is voluntary. When our brave young men & women sign on that dotted line to commit to a number of years of service to their country they know what they signing up for. It is those who have never served and never had to see just what they are made of who make claims they know nothing about other than what the mainstream media has to say. Frank, I suggest you do a little research and see just what our military does around the world before you make blanket statements and quite frankly, disrespectful to Troucul and all our military personel.
Aren't the Marines a Cult by Your Definition?
I have had to point out why the United States Marine Corps is not a cult so many times that I carry alist to lectures and court appearances. It cites 19 ways in which the practices of the Marine Corps differ from those found in most modern cults....
Cults clearly differ from such purely authoritarian groups as the military, some types of sects and communes, and centuries-old Roman Catholic and Greek and Russian Orthodox Orders. These groups, though rigid and controlling, lack a double agenda and are not manipulative or leader-centered. The differences become apparent when we examine the intensity and pervasiveness with which mind-manipulating techniques and deceptions are or are not applied.
Jesuit seminaries may isolate the seminarian from the rest of the world for periods of time, but the candidate is not deliberately deceived about the obligations and burdens of the priesthood. In fact, he is warned in advance about what is expected, and what he can and cannot do....
Mainstream religious organizations do not concentrate their search on the lonely and the vulnerable.... Nor do mainstream religions focus recruitment on wealthy believers who are seen as pots of gold for the church, as is the case with those cults who target rich individuals....
Military training and legitimate executive training programs may use the dictates of authority as well as peer pressure to encourage the adoption of new patterns of thought and behavior. They do not seek, however, to accelerate the process by prolonged or intense psychological depletion or by stirring up feelings of dread, guilt, and sinfulness....
And what is wrong with cults is not just that cults are secret societies. In our culture, there are openly recognized, social secret societies, such as the Masons, in which new members know up front that they will gradually learn the shared rituals of the group.... In [cults], there is deliberate deception about what the group is and what some of the rituals might be, and primarily, there is deception about what the ultimate goal will be for a member, what will ultimately be demanded and expected, and what the damages resulting from some of the practices might be. A secret handshake is not equivalent to mind control.
--adapted from Cults in Our Midst: The Hidden Menace in Our Everyday Lives,Margaret Singer and Janja Lalich, Jossey-Bass, 1995. Reprinted with authors' permission.
-
frankiespeakin
Carla,
Military training and legitimate executive training programs may use the dictates of authority as well as peer pressure to encourage the adoption of new patterns of thought and behavior. They do not seek, however, to accelerate the process by prolonged or intense psychological depletion or by stirring up feelings of dread, guilt, and sinfulness....
Ok so they don't use the same tactics as religion to indoctrinate, but they do use mind control tecniques to get one to march to the same beat and do what ever killing the government wants them to do. Hardly honorable if you ask me.