This Is My Current Stage

by R.F. 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  R.F.

  I'm currently in the stage of mixed feelings. I feel torn at times because of this. I've built up courage to come to this website, and recently i've built up enough to take part in it. Now i'm torn over the fact that this is the organzation that i've been around my entire life and been told that this is the one organization Jehovah is using and the only way to receive his blessing is to be a part of it. Then at the same time those doubts just can't go away in my mind. Things that I tried to make myself believe but just couldn't.

  Now something has come to my mind after much pondering is my dad. He's baptized, however something that has intrigued me is the fact that he never encouraged me to do things like pioneer or reach out for privileges. He never encouraged me to get baptized. Heck, he never really taught me the Bible based on the literature. However he would tell me every now then about reading the Bible. He isn't known as being "spiritual". He might make 1 meeting a week and go door to door once every 2 or 3 months, but after thinking about all of this, could this be something that i've been overlooking all this time. Could he have been trying to send a subliminal message after all this time?
• 

  Arthur

  but after thinking about all of this, could this be something that i've been overlooking all this time. Could he have been trying to send a subliminal message after all this time?

  It's possible that your dad was just like many other Witnesses - just going through the motions in a state of complacency. What little guidance he did give you was probably the best that he could do.

  My dad was very similar. He never once encouraged me to pioneer or go to Bethel. He never gave us kids any kind of spiritual guidance. He eventually went "inactive" and now only attends the memorial. I have observed countless people like this in the organization. It seems that they enjoy the association and will go through the motions out of obligation. But, I do not think that they were giving their children any subliminal messages by their lackluster performance. I think that they just were not committed to the organization the way that others were. They are very similar to the "Easter Sunday Catholics". I think that your father; like mine was like one of those Easter-Catholics.
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  aligot ripounsous

  It's late now, I will post tomorrow on this if it's re'levent, as it is about what my attitude toward my children is
• 

  Hellrider

  RF:

  Hi, welcome!

  Now i'm torn over the fact that this is the organzation that i've been around my entire life and been told that this is the one organization Jehovah is using and the only way to receive his blessing is to be a part of it.

  The same goes for half the people here. Many of us (myself included) were raised as JW`s, but...

  Then at the same time those doubts just can't go away in my mind. Things that I tried to make myself believe but just couldn't.

  "Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time" (Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881).

  There is nothing more precious than finding out the real TRUTH about things in life! - and this is something we all know. Have you ever stopped to consider why jw`s refer to their religion as "the Truth"? Because we all know, deep down, that we are, in the words of Thomas Jefferson, obligated to follow the truth, "wherever it may lead us". So by monopolizing on that word, the Jw`s makes it look like you "need look no further". But the sad fact is, that anyone can claim that they have "the truth", and that you "need look no further". The piont is: take your time. Don`t stop investigating things. It`s like the move the Matrix, and you have already swallowed the pill. Whatever you decide to do in the future: You are obligated to investigate these things, because you owe it to yourself! Good luck.
• 

  jwfacts

  Why don't you ask your Dad. My father is a CO, yet he does not believe the black and white Watchtower doctrine that only JWs will be saved. Somehow he thinks I could even survive Armageddon even though he considers me an apostate activist. You may find that you Dad likes the way of life but is not totally convinced, or maybe he is totally convinced but does not feel he is worthy of salvation, or does not have the strength to make the effort of 3 meetings and regular service. Many parents don't want salvation and only go because they want their children to be saved, so once all the children stop going they give up as well. The only way to know is to ask.

  In regards to organization, the word never appears in the Bible. You would think that if it is vital to belong to An Organization then the Bible would discuss such a concept. Neither has God restricted himself to dealing with only one organization at a time. See http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/organization.htm
• 

  JamesThomas

  R.F.:

  i'm torn over the fact that this is the organzation that i've been around my entire life and been told that this is the one organization Jehovah is using and the only way to receive his blessing is to be a part of it. Then at the same time those doubts just can't go away in my mind. Things that I tried to make myself believe but just couldn't.

  This isn't about your dear dad, it's about you. The guilt you carry in regards Jehovah, is poison. The remedy for this is simple and naturally intuitive, if you are ready to open to it.

  It's important to get in touch with a genuine sense of the unimaginably vast infinity of the expression of life and universe, then it is easy, if not effortless to let go of the very small and limited tribal deity revealed within the pages of the Bible. We know not what the true Source is, but it certainly is not wise to attribute infinity to what is so grossly finite as the Bible god, or any other god that the mind's imagination creates......which is all of them we name and worship. Does it seem wise to place any limits or boundaries whatsoever on That from which all existence flows?

  Let go of your little god and the guilt you carry and be at peace. It is the honorable thing to do. Allow the immediate reality of nature and life in and around you to silently teach you about what is authentically Divine. Only in our beliefs and religions is the ultimate Truth we seek so small as to be absent.

  Good luck; and welcome.

  j
• 

  aligot ripounsous

  RF,

  from what you let know in your post, I wonder if your dad and I haven't, to some extent, a similar approach to educating children in the JW religion. My teen daughter and son asked me lately the crucial question : Dad, if it were now, would you become a JW ? They are puzzled at my insisting on the family to attend the WE meeting but apart from that I'm not fussy about other weekly meetings or full lenght assemblies and I tell them that it is entirely up to them as regards their becoming publishers and getting baptized. I had to explain that I was baptized past age 30 and I expect them to make their decision free of all parents or peer pressure. I see the real benefit they will get from being taught christian principles and, as any JW parents do, my wife and I find that the congregation provides a sort of parapet to the common silly things teenagers are prone to. On the other hand we are all too aware of the limited social surrounding this organization is in an actual fact and how marginalizing its education standards and practices are. In the end I have to admit to them that, had I found, 30 years ago, all the information I now get from the internet about the historical record of the WTS, I would probably not have become a JW. I guess this uncomfortable position is fairly common to JW parents who are squizzed between the desires to provide their kids with religious training and, at the same time, make them socially fitting.
• 

  TheListener

  Hi RF

  I haven't had an opportunity to welcome you to the board yet.

  Man, I really remember a few years back when I was in a similar position to you. The main difference was that I am married with kids. My wife doesn't understand my feelings and probably never will.

  I went through a couple of different phases as I came out of the WT.

  1. I totally believed in the truth and just knew the doubts I had were my issues of my own making and that when I really studied enough or asked the right person the answer would be obvious.

  2. As I looked into the specific things that bothered me and asked a few questions of those around me I realized that what I expected to happen - didn't. I didn't receive clear answers to my doubts.

  3. At this point I was thoroughly confused. I readily admit that every time there was a thunderstorm or a large scale world event I would panic in my mind because I knew the end was nigh but I wasn't in a good relationship with Jehovah - thus I probably wouldn't make it.

  4. After a long long time feeling the fear of destruction I decided to take my questioning to the next level. I and a friend drove a state away and I made him buy Crisis of Conscience. I left the book at work and went so far as to hide it so no one (even though no other witnesses worked there) would see it. Every time I opened it to read I would be nervous that somehow someone would see me and rat me out. I was deathly afraid of losing my wife and kids.

  5. I realized that I just didn't agree with many of the scriptural teachings and began to fade. I guess I was unknowingly fading through the entire process, but it was this last step that helped me realize that I wanted to be completely free from the JWs but retain my immediate family relationships.

  Good luck RF. I highly recommend settling your mind on these issues prior to getting married. It wouldn't be fair to you or your fiance to get married while doubting one of the main cornerstones of your relationship.

  By the way, what issues caused me the most trouble? It's different with everyone, but for me they were (in no particular order): 607; added rules and regulations that all witnesses live under (both written and unwritten); blood; disfellowshipping; what constitutes sacred service; confession

  These caused me the most trouble. Do I understand every aspect of every point on these subjects? No. But, I have learned much more than I ever thought possible.
• 

  writetoknow

  You know, trust your gut that somethings is wrong in fact you have known that for a long time and have prayed about the matter over and over again. The truth is painful as you already know because you teach that to people you meet. You will find that many people you have condemned based on the society beliefs will prove to be better and stronger Christian then we every were. Shocking, humbling, painful. Yes, my friend there are many honest hearted people that gave their full loyalty too the organsation never thinking they were wrong thats why they zealousy tried to help others- some all their lives. There was no bad motive that is why you see on this site people bitter getting through the process they felt duped as you do now. How could I teach people these things? I thought we were the only ones that weren't duped. Who can I trust if I was so easy taken in. I thought I was a free thinker? If the witness aren't right then know one has the truth. You see if your honest and I believe you are because you wouldn't be searching; you won't spend every minute of your life wrangling in your heart and mind over what is right and what is wrong in every step of your daily active base on the teaching of JW's doctrine; you don't have a moment of real peace. You life is spent trying to please Jehovah God by your faithful acts. You believe despite stating otherwise that you must do something to enter into the kingdom. In fact to think otherwise is great fear- it can't be that easy or it from the devil. The truning point for many of us is when we read the bible that we so love claim to love and finally realize we don't forgive other people not of our faith - we have a moral right and must do according to what the society says. (simply put we have no responsiablity to forgive because the society says we don't) And yet Jesus was a Jew the Jews killed Christ and his last words were that his father forgive them (the Jews had thousand of years of religious teaching by the best not a 100years ). Shocking! Over and over again if we are God's children we must prove ourselves by forgiving our enemies. When I started that process a great release happen many of my long time health problems ended and our faithful God started showing me deeper and deeper truth. We are not to spend our lives looking at every letter of the law to protect ourselves from the evil of mens doctrines; who we love, who we hate, who we forgive, who we talk too, who we won't talk too and so on. God is not the author of fear love throws frear outside God is love not paranoid. We are taught God is a fair God of justice he is not partial perverting his law favoring one and not the other. If you apply your judgments that you daily apply to other faith's to Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine it will be the biggiest shock of your life. Another turning point. And still other turning point was when I learnt about the gift of "underserved kindness" please really think about those words of "kindness underserved". If you were told that your life depended on picking up 1800 pounds over your head or you would be killed - then you would be killed because it is not humanly possible. The law condemns us to death no one could fulfill the law on earth no one could pick up that much weight. Christ fulifilled that law for us he died picking up that weight for you and me. Then he gave us a gift that cannot be earned a free gift "underserved" while we were yet sinners. He remove the constant need of proving ourselves righteous through ones efforts. God no longer looked at us he looked at the blood of Christ he passed over our sins and acts in order to focus his eyes on the blood He can't look at us, we are sinners. Yes, the blood on the door post - the lamb blood; now on our hearts - you remember. It did not matter if you were a sinner or not or if you had 8o-years of faithful service on the Governing Body God looked at the blood on the door post and if it was there the angle of death passed over. All living at that time could act on faith and put the blood on the door it wasn't just Jews - now was it. He didn't tell them they had to live up to the comandments or listen to the elders or if they had a bad habit it had to be overcame before they were entitled to put the blood on the post. God is not partials anyone putting faith in His son blood can be saved. We as witness are taking God position by stating so much that we are more worthy because we do this and we do that and this person spend this much time doing this or that. And if you don't think so - just stop talking and listen to all the stuff going on in your own heart and mind. Christ went to who when he was on earth people in good standing with religion of his times or the people rejected by the religious teachers as sinners and condemned? Did Christ reject people or groups and their teachings? My friend lastly think about this point if doctrinal truth replaces underserved kindness than there is no underserve kindness the passover is meaningless - Christ is our passover. Moreover, the doctinal truth would have to be more or as perfect as the blood of Christ and it would have to be lived up to just as perfectly we would have to earn it by living up to that doctirne (there are no longer animail sacrfice to atone our sins). All would be condnmend no one could measure up (or they would have to become lying hypocrites) and that means if people base their lives on doctrinal truth that truth would have to be perfect from God and could never be changed. So for the sake of argument if you believe JW's have 90% of pure truth and another religion has only 75% and another only 60% and so on. What excuse do you make for yourself for only having 90%? Or do you also need daily forgiveness - the blood of Christ? Do you make allowance for that 90% to be changed as new light over and over again? But at the same time you harshly condnmend other religions to everlasting cutting off because they they have changed their doctrines or don't have it right? So your group determines that they are not entitled to the kindness underserved - they cannot be forgiven! You can drink 10% polution and be forgiven, but if another group drinks 25% they are cut off from the blood of Christ? And what if yours doctrine changes after you have condenmend the other group - who then needs forgiveness more? We are told that we enter into God's peace when we stop our own works, that is, stop trying to prove how much more deserving we are based on our works. He that loves little forgives little. And that is why God states stop judging because God has appointed a judge of all - His Son Christ Jesus. You cannot judge faith because it is and act trusting in the blood of Christ. You are taught to judge everyone faith by their actions. Those actions are base on what men think a person should do or not do according to their rules. That is why time and again God's prophet went to people other then the Jews to fine people that believe God and acted out faith doing the rignt thing and reproving God's people. Love = Trust! No group of people on this earth can determine what price God places on His Son's Blood. God say we are all sinners - not man, man never knew it until God showed him he was a sinner through putting a law that he could not live up to that condemned him. Some where humbly and condemned while others believed they where worthy and proud - go figure?) God ask us not to deprive anyone of the gift of underserved kindness through our judgments. No religion from the time of Christ has had it rights none, had purer doctrinal truth - not even the apostle because they were not being judge on that anymore. It was their faith that matter what it produced out of love for the gift of not having their sin held against them. They trusted that God cared so much that any that put faith in Christ would be brought to perfection in God's time and in his way - that none would perish it was not possible. They had no need for mans rules because Christ law of love was now written in their heart They knew God would teach and correct all matters that they have very little to do with producing a "child" of God because they were not the Mother or Father they were brothers and sisters. They trusted in the work of God Holy spirit and where spirit is there is freedom. Like young children they could forgive each other because they had been forgiven and no one was righteous accept Christ and by accepting His Blood they were accounted righteous. Now step up and take someones child mistreat that child abuse that child and see what man does? How small is the God you serve that has to control every idea and step or his children life. He ask you to trust him but he gives you know trust to make the right choice without being threaten over and over again? It is the gift that proves we are his people it is the ability to humble ourselve and see how great this free gift is and show how much we appreciate that gift by doing what Jesue did freely forgiving others. It is the stone that all christain faith is built on; He is remembering our wick deeds no more. You know, as we all do, their has never been more confusion on earth more sickness in mankind. We understand now more then every that so much of what we have been taught effects our lives. Do you think the God of Love doesn't understand this, do you think that he won't do more to help people if doctrinal truth means life? Even unrighteous men will do that much is your God less. Do you honestly believe or want to believe God's love is so small? Perhaps we are all in Babylon- can you prove we are not? Or perhaps God has a plan to save all through trails by organsation that mistreat his child so all will finally listen to the master voice instead of men? We must learn what simple childlike faith is trusting in the blood and not attaching all our evil thoughts to an act of love by God. You must become like young children - do we talk this way to young children and teach them all these evil thoughts of men. Your right you can't trust anyone in religion - where did you learn that? There is One Door One way to Salvation One Shepard One voice One person that can open and shut. No one ,that is, no one can snacth a sheep from his hand no one. What does it take for us to accept God's love and come to the only way he has made for salvation?

  We know the law condemns us to death and sin is death but the love of Christ there is freedom and no condemnation.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  The organization discourages outside resources and talking to/reading from former members.

  Look into that. Examine what outsiders say about JW's and the NWT. What do former members
  say about the doctrines and the fear tactics used? If you need help, plenty of people here would
  be glad to steer you in the right direction. If it were the truth, examination couldn't hurt it.