Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ANewLeif

  Qcmbr,

  IF JWs had a doctrine that included divine revelation as being the source of their doctrines that differ from the First Century then your point would have merit. In their case, they have no such doctrine of divine revelation. They specifically state that they have not had such revelations in modern times.

  I was not attempting to address the problematic doctrines of every religious faith, nor to compare JWs to any currently existing religion. I was attempting to address the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. I understood that to be the purpose of this forum. I was also comparing their doctrine and behaviors to the doctrine of known Christians in the First Century. JWs accept the book of Acts as a factual relation of events in the First Century and accept the canon of Scripture that comprises the Authorized Version of the Bible. Other religions that do not obviously cannot be weighed by the same measures.

  Regarding circumcision, I would not be forced to hold the Mosaic covenant as binding if I am not a Jew. To impose that was ludicrous to all but recently converted Jews, which I have never been. My logic does not impose upon me the standards of the OT. The OT was not written for Christians, but for the Jews. Dozens of parctices of Judaism have not been handed down through Christianity because they make no sense for Christians. We were freed from the burden of the written law by its fulfillment. Our law code is written by spirit upon hearts; not handed down through organizational edicts in the Watchtower or through Papal bulls.

  ANL
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  yaddayadda

  Nonsense. Anyone that confesses faith in Jesus Christ, believes that he is their personal saviour and redeemer and obeys his commandments is a Christian.
  
  Who did Jesus put the focus on over and over and over again? Who did Jesus say he got EVERYTHING from..all that he taught...all authority...evertyhing. He got it from his Heavenly Father Yahweh/Jehovah.
  
  Your list is completely selective. We could add a lot of things that most Christians do not do that is a major departure from scripture, eg:
  
  Do most Christians worship the Father like Jesus did, or do they almost exclusively worship Jesus?
  
  Did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray to anyone other than the Father?
  
  Do most Christians believe they have an immortal soul. How many believe that evildoers will roast in a burning hell forever. These doctrines are clearly not biblical at all, yet most Christians believe them.
  
  Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to doctrine.
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  mouthy

  That doesn't mean they are bad people.

  Where Did you read it said they were bad People??? Jehovahs Witnesses are NOT Christians./!!!!!

  They follow an Angel..Whom they claim is Jesus Christ named Micheal... A Christian is a Follower Of Christ. Hence the name.... No matter if this upsets...... you Read the Bible ....NO WHERE DOES it say to follow a false Prophet even if HE thinks he is a true one.. The WT has said they are profecer ,or Predicters for ove 100 years .Please tell me one of the predictions that came true....
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  jelcat8224

  Who did Jesus put the focus on over and over and over again? Who did Jesus say he got EVERYTHING from..all that he taught...all authority...evertyhing. He got it from his Heavenly Father Yahweh/Jehovah.
  
  Your list is completely selective. We could add a lot of things that most Christians do not do that is a major departure from scripture, eg:
  
  Do most Christians worship the Father like Jesus did, or do they almost exclusively worship Jesus?
  
  Did Jesus instruct his disciples to pray to anyone other than the Father?

  yaddayadda: Very well said!

  They do not come in the name of Christ Jesus, they are not persecuted in the name of Jesus, they do not endure in the name of Jesus, they do not call on the name of Jesus to be saved, they do not request that Lord Jesus receive their spirit, they do all these in the name of Jehovah.

  ANewLeif: It seems your real issue with JW's is that they worship the Creator and not the creat-ED. I could be wrong though.
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  ANewLeif

  yadda-yadda,

  You said, "Nonsense. Anyone that confesses faith in Jesus Christ, believes that he is their personal saviour and redeemer and obeys his commandments is a Christian."

  Not according to Jehovah's Witnesses. The criteria for being a Christian, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is much more extensive than yours. Did you really not know that?

  Even then, how can Jehovah's Witnesses believe someone is their personal savior to whom they cannot even speak? At best, such a savior is an impersonal savior. JWs teach all but 144,000 are only saved by extension, only the elect are directly redeemed ("bought from the earth"). Therefore, the vast majority are not saved by a personal savior at all.

  Among Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus is not even considered the mediator for any but the 144,000. How can these people possibly believe they are Christians?

  In answer to the rest of your concerns, I already wrote to qcmbr that I wasn't addressing every religion and comparing every religion to the entire Bible. I was addressing Jehovah's Witnesses, as a religion, and comparing its doctrine specifically to the First Century Christians.

  If your contention is really that JWs are no different than nearly every other mainstream Christian religion when it comes to having doctrines that disagree with the Bible, I would agree but for one fact: JWs do not believe any other religions are Christians or that any adherents to other religions are Christians. While there are some other religions that hold similar doctrine, most Christian religions do not.

  You wrote, "Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to doctrine."

  I don't live in a glass house. I don't establish doctrine and then declare that anyone who disagrees with my opinion on Scripture will be eternally destroyed at Armageddon. I don't haughtily declare that I am God's sole channel of communication on earth, doctrinally shortening the hand of God and limiting the power of the Holy Ghost for millions of people. I don't say that everyone who rejects that authority is anathema.

  Any criticism I have of JW doctrine is always held in my mind against that specific backdrop. Unlike most other churches, JW dogma is held to be inviolable on pain of disfellowshipping.

  Their wanton hubris will be their downfall.

  ANL
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  ANewLeif

  I thought JWs hold there doctrine up to a higher standard of Scriptural integrity than other religions. The responses I am getting seem to indicte that they do not. Many seem willing to forgive doctrinal error among JW doctrine on the basis of doctrinal error in other religions. If that is the case, why is it any better to be a JW than any other religion?

  ANL
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  Pahpa

  Wouldn't it be better to leave it up to God and Christ as to make this judgment?

  There are many fundamental Christian sects that also condemn other Christian groups that do not adhere to a particular belief. There are trinitarians who feel that one is not a Christian by denying what they consider the major Christian doctrine. (And I'm sure there are some in the unitarian sects who do the same toward trinitarians.) There are other denominations that make similar judgments over doctrines they consider essential for Chrisitan faith.

  For centuries, the Catholic church condemned and killed non-Catholics as "heretics" for not recognizing its authority. Likewise, Protestants persecuted and killed those they considered as "unchristian."

  The best advice we have is Jesus' words: "Do not judge, or you will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you?" (Mt. 7:1,2)
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  Deputy Dog

  kwr

  The JW's are a Christian group whether they agree with your views or not.

  What ever you say! It doesn't matter what you think, we don't call JWs Christian in our church. Some people on this board, think they are just mutated monkeys. Call yourself what ever you like, it won't change the facts.
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  jelcat8224

  I don't really think that it is a matter of Christain or not. It is a matter of them being misguided and blinded. The WTS has twisted the minds of the r&f so much, it's sickening. Do I think the WTS behave like christains? No. If they were they would not always be needing to side step their own doctrines and come up with new ones to make things fit. Do I think the majority of the r&f behave like christians? Yes. They use Christ as their mediator when praying. They highly value the sacrifice of christ. No matter where they will end up living after it's all over (heaven or earth) they all feel and believe Christ has redeemed them from their sins. Why does one need to speak directly to Christ? Only God has the power to answer prayers. So they pray through Christ, not to Christ. I don't see how this makes them unchristain.
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  zack

  Jehovahs Witnesses are not Christians. Their leaders have taken away the natural inclination of any beleiver to want to be with Christ, instead replacing it

  with the false hope of never having to die and tap dancing into "Paradise." How can ANYONE be a Christian who does not confess union with Christ? According

  to Jesus, it is not possible. Jehovah's Witnesses do not confess union with Christ. What they do confess is association with the "brothers'' of Christ, who in turn

  bless the average JW by letting them do all the WORKS that their doctrines command. Jehovahs Witnesses believe in two seperate and distinct destinies for their

  believers: heaven for the rulers, Earth for the ruled. Christians believe in one faith, one hope, one baptism. I should know, since I was a JW my entire life, as pioneer,

  as elder. I know what they teach becuase I used to teach it. And I KNOW that I did not teach Christianity. I taught Watchtowerism. I taught doctrines of men. I taught a

  lie for almost all my life convinced it was the truth. I thank God for showing me mercy and allowing me to see my error.