Those who enter paridise, how are their sins paid for?

by drew sagan 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  M.J.

  I just thought of something. Romans 6:7 is taught to mean that a person's sins are paid for at death. But then how can there then be a "resurrection of...the unrighteous," (Acts 24:15) if all dead people's sins are paid for? How can they be called "unrighteous"?

  While the one group gets their perfection in an instant the other one has to work for it over 1000 years!

  Well, I don't think they'd actually get "perfection" at resurrection, according to the WTS. They'd be resurrected (recreated) still as imperfect, yet will have paid for their prior sins. So I suppose it would be as if they were physically reborn. Funny how Jehovah will re-create them imperfectly though. Or will he perfectly re-create them imperfectly? . If they aren't perfect then presumably there still will be sin during the 1000 years. So they'll start sinnin again and quickly be in the same boat as the Great Crowd and be guilty again until the end of the 1000 years. Guilty, but just not quite guilty enough to get zapped into oblivion before then.

  But it still gets back to the fact that NO ONE pays for their personal sins, yet somehow at the end of the 1000 years they all get to be declared righteous.
• 

  unbaptized

  You said,

  "Since the JWs take the death spoken here as literal (instead of viewing it as 'death in Christ' which the context of the verse really shows) they are left with a big doctranal problem."

  The scriptures does say the wages sin pays is death. Anyone who dies in Christ will obtain life not death. That's why their is the symbolic baptism. If you are committed to doing the will of Almighty God and the Christ then you are living yet you may still die!
  
  If Jesus only dies for Adams sin (as they teach) and that we pay for our own sins when we die, how do those that enter 'the new system' without ever dying pay for their sins?

  As far as Almighty God is concerned if you are born in sin and do not exercise faith in the Christ you are already dead, though you are still alive. The scriptures says Jesus died for many not just because of Adams sins. Adam is dead and has been dead for eons of years now. He had not lived long enough to see the fulfillment of edenic prophecy. Plus he forfeited his perfect life by acting disobediently. Those whom had not had the opportunity to experience a life of human perfection from God's standpoint will be able to do so in the future by exercising faith in Jesus sacrifice. Jesus sacrifice covers over a multitude of sins, so people will be able to cross over into the new system with a clean conscience that God has forgiven them on the basis of Jesus sacrifice. But Jesus sacrifice is so precious that even those whom did not exercise faith in the Christ will receive a resurrection of judgement with an opportunity to receive everlasting life.
• 

  bebu

  Thanks for the headache, MJ!!

  bebu
• 

  unbaptized

  Also my viewpoint is this,

  The preaching work has to be done because it was a command from the Christ. But people should always remember that Jehovah is a most loving, kind and gracious God. There is nothing we can do to earn back our good standing with God. The life he gives is free, that means we can do all the preaching, teaching, learning, promoting, arguing, loving in the entire world and still could not pay for the gift God has presented to us all.

  "If its free, then its free"
• 

  PEC

  Thanks for the headache, MJ!!

  You are not the only one.
• 

  heathen

  It's probably not worth trying to make sense of it in the first place.

  LMAO

  I do remember reading something posted around here where they believe even the dead great crowd are resurrected during the millenial reign and it takes the whole thousand years before they are considered living . I don't know the WTBTS is nuts ...............
• 

  Leolaia

  Romans 6 construes "sin" as a slaveholder. Without Christ, people are obligated to slave for "sin", and are not acquitted from their debt to sin until they die. Death frees them from sin in the same way that the wages that slaveholders paid to slaves (the peculium) could be saved to pay for one's emancipation from slavery. In no way does the verse refer to death as freeing a person from one's debts with respect to God. For Paul, God would still judge a person according to his or her deeds. But Paul also construes baptism as a kind of death, and thus argues that baptism will also secure one's release from slavery to sin. In other words, the chapter is talking about freedom in Christ -- not about having sins forgiven postmortem. To maintain their teaching, the Society has to mitigate all the other clear statements in the NT about postmortem judgment and punishment/rewarding vis-a-vis deeds committed before death (which is a standard feature of late Jewish apocalyptic thought).
• 

  Terry

  In Judaism, only the offended party can forgive you your sin. You must make amends or pay a fine. That is why murder cannot be forgiven; the deceased is not around to accept your apology or restitution!

  Who is the offended party to Adam's sin? Was Adam's death payment for the sin of disobedience? If Jesus has to take the place of Adam (while alive) and pay restitution for the sin of disobedience; to whom is the price paid but to the offended party (God).

  Now, if Jesus IS god you have a real circus volkswagon full of clowns!

  Jesus is the offended party, takes the place of the offender and then dies in order to make amends for the offence he committed against himself!!!

  Even if Jesus is not god you have the innocent party (Jesus) being punished for the guilty party (Adam) as well as making just one death (Jesus') expand quantitatively to cover the deaths of billions of humans (Adam's offspring).

  The payment of the innocent person's death is paid to the innocent person's own Dad who allows this transaction to occur and calls it JUSTICE!!

  Did Rube Goldberg design this scenario or was it some out of work Hollywood hack?

  Was the death Adam was warned would occur a literal fleshly demise? Or, was it a metaphorical "spiritualized" death? If it was a "spiritualized" death, then, why did a literal fleshly demise occur too?

  If Jesus died for Adam and all his offspring and it was their "spiritual" death he is redeeming, then; why did Jesus need to die a fleshly death?

  The offended party is God, right? In what way was God, jehovah or jesus god offended to the extent 6000+ years of human suffering and death were not enough to quell the sense of damage??

  Why is Jesus death as a demi-god, god, son of god (take your pick) so similar to the pagan idea of the death and resurrection of their make believe deities? How did the unbelieving pagans correctly guess the sacred secret????

  This is a pretzel copulating with a pig's tail while climbing a spiral staircase!!
• 

  TopHat

  They will have 1000 years to pay for their sins and prove themsleves to Christ. Just my thought and 2 cents worth.
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  M.J.

  THANK YOU for that Leo.