by Zico 16 Replies latest members private
I do not know whether he is a sinner. One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see.
We can only "know" the subjective "side" of whatever experience we may have. We won't even know if there is any objective "side" to it.
Your reluctance to let your experience be enlisted under the flag of any objective "truth," while acknowledging it as "pure joy," beyond explanation, says volumes to me.
Welcome to the non-club.
Hi LittleToe,
Let me ask you a few questions, if I may:
Just a few eh? No worries!
Is the "Jesus", whom you approached, more than you'd ever been taught?
Taught when? The Jesus I was taught about in the Kingdom Hall couldn't be approached, he was a created angel, and born again experiences were 'demonic' The Jesus I believed I was approaching was a part of God, in that sense he was certainly far more than the Jesus I had learnt of in the Kingdom Hall, but that concept of Jesus was still something I'd learnt from books/websites and the Christian girl I sit next to at work.
Is he more than you even managed to read about in the Bible or other places? More than you ever imagined?
I hope you don't mind me giving you one answer for these two questions. I’ve read since, and had read, many accounts of people having these experiences. Like you, Bernadette, Auldsoul, and I, they couldn’t properly define them using words. Since people only think in words, a concept that cannot be described in words will always be more than you can ever imagine it to be. So my answer to these, are yes.
Were you really suffering a psychotic episode when you experienced such unexpected feelings of exquisite joy In response to an action you chose to take in soundness of mind?
I don’t believe so!
When you read the Bible, especially the New Testament and even more especially the Gospels, do you find that many aspects of it resonate with you, regaratdless of factual accuracy?
Of course. I think many aspects resonate with most people. I’m sure even most atheists can accept the wisdom of things like the ‘Golden rule’ and ‘Love your neighbour’
Further, is it the so-called "facts" that resonate or something else, something deeper?
Emotion? Yes. I don’t like emotion though. I remember the day I decided to get baptised into the JWs, it was during a Convention, and it wasn’t anything anyone said, it was just the feeling of unity I got from being around so many brothers and sisters that convinced me it was ‘The Truth’ I thus made a mistake. Of course, since I realise the divine, or divine experience cannot be described logically, this leaves me with a bit of a problem.
What details bring you joy
The experience itself.
and which erode your satisfaction, in what you've found?
Do you mean which parts of the bible or gospels am I having a problem with? I didn’t want to go into too much discussion on this, but the biggest problem I’m having is why Jesus even needed to die for us? Maybe it’s a blasphemy, and I hope I don’t cause offence by stating it, but I just wonder why God needed to give a sacrifice to us on our behalf? Why did he need a part of him (or his son) to experience humanity and die in order for us to gain salvation, or forgiveness from sins? We can’t possibly avoid sin because of the way God has created us, so surely he could forgive us without the need for Jesus? And isn't this the major basis for Jesus himself?
Following AuldSoul's comments, you might sooner define art, beauty and love. But you know what you've experienced...
..cherish this gnosis and hold it close, for you have touched the Divine!
Absolutely. Although I asked if it was 'all in my head' I certainly don't believe this to be the case, but I can't say I'm certain. I’m sorry if my answers didn’t make sense, or if I misinterpreted any of your questions, feel free to ask any more questions if you want more from me.
Ken,
So many different religions have some emotional happening that proves to them that they have met God.
Maybe they've all met God?
Maybe they've all met God?
Ya see, I just don't know that this isn't true in some way.
Maybe God isn't the vain self-absorbed personality that Judaism has taught Christianity
that he is. Maybe he isn't about to destroy 99.9% of humanity or send people to their
everlasting torment for 80 years of sinning.
Maybe all of religion is wrong, but God still appreciates the efforts and provides spiritual
experiences. Maybe the experiences are caused by some balance achieved with the
cosmos.
If any of that is true, then God is understanding, kind, and loving. That tells me that seeking
him my own way is fine. I still don't need organized religion, but I certainly understand why
people follow their experiences wherever they lead people.
Welcome to the non-club.
Cool, I'm in a club with Narkissos!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- OTWO, Although a different experience convinced me the JWs had the Truth, that, as well as my Dad's experience, are enough to put me off trusting purely in 'experience' Although, like you, I accept I could change my mind. (Not that I know exactly what could make me change my mind!)Maybe God isn't the vain self-absorbed personality that Judaism has taught Christianity
that he is.
It seems unlikely doesn't it? Will God really destroy or reject someone for using the mind that he created them with? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anyway, that's it from me, I'll be back tomorrow!
Zico:
Sorry, I should have stated that I meant them to be rhetorical
Sorry, I should have stated that I meant them to be rhetorical
It was good to write them down anyway.
