Defining the spiritual experience

Zico

I've wanted to post this for a few weeks now, but I've had no idea how to word it, I still don't, but I'm writing it anyway.A little background About a year ago now, I learnt of the 607-587 problem. It played on my mind, and I felt I had to research it. Thus begun my apostate Internet journey. To be honest, I was never that afraid of apostates. I always felt there was nothing that could destroy my faith, after all, how could you argue against absolute truth? For this reason, I believe it was always only a matter of time before I came across a problem that would have started me on the way out. Becoming 'Born again' So, I lost my faith in the Watchtower Society. But I did not lose my faith in the bible, I read many Christian sites, and a few books, and I worked on that 'personal relationship' with Jesus. It was only a few months ago, when, in prayer to Jesus, I asked him to reveal himself to me. Thus followed the most amazing, and indescribable experience I've ever experienced. This was really the part I've been struggling with in my writing this, I'm not a very articulate person, and I don't feel anything I've wrote on it can properly do it justice. I guess the closest I can come to describing it is as 'pure joy' Researching Christianity My opinion that you cannot argue against truth stayed with me. And so, I would never allow myself to accept things I had learnt, or take things for granted again. Like when I began my research against the Jehovah's Witnesses, I was pretty much convinced nothing could effect my faith, but I wanted to be completely sure. I was wrong As per usual... I researched Christianity, the bible, evolution etc... at first I could accept that the bible was a fallible document, with no issues, as long as I could be confident Jesus was true. The issues came when I started researching the Jesus story. There appear to be so many flaws within the Gospels and Jesus writings, that I can no longer have any idea whether Jesus even existed, or at least if he was anything like what he is said to be. But... I'm still held back by that time when I believed I became 'Born again' When I believed Jesus made himself known to me. How do I know what that was? Did it come from God, or was it all in my head? Perhaps I will never know, and I honestly don't even know exactly what I want, or expect from posting this, but I am genuinely interested in seeing whether anyone here has an opinion on this, or any spiritual experiences.

bernadette

It was only a few months ago, when, in prayer to Jesus, I asked him to reveal himself to me. Thus followed the most amazing, and indescribable experience I've ever experienced. This was really the part I've been struggling with in my writing this, I'm not a very articulate person, and I don't feel anything I've wrote on it can properly do it justice. I guess the closest I can come to describing it is as 'pure joy'

Zico that was my exp too when I was first researching - reading about Jesus and focusing on him enabled me to cope with panic and anxiety attacks that would otherwise have been devastating. I don't think I'd have made it out without his inspiration.

Zico

Bernadette, Thanks for you post. I'm glad that it/he gave you the strength to escape the cult. If you don't mind then, I would like to ask what your opinion is on the rest of my post? Have you yourself ever researched the anti-Christian arguments, and if so, what were your thoughts on them? I don't intend to argue anything, or try to change your faith, I'm just interested in hearing your viewpoint, if you didn't comment because you didn't understand what I was saying, please let me know.

AuldSoul

Those who insist on trying to define the spiritual experience are equally incapable of defining what is art. However, art really exists. Try defining beauty. Yet, there is beauty.

Subjective? Certainly. Real anyway? Yep.

Can they be clearly defined by words? No.

I would say that the model of "in the eye of the beholder" must hold true for all such realities. Purely practical minded types who want everything classified and properly stored in its stale and sterile laboratory container must make room for the billions who recognize more to life than simply what is. All of our advances as humans are owed to those who seek what may be.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

LittleToe

Let me ask you a few questions, if I may:

Is the "Jesus", whom you approached, more than you'd ever been taught?
Is he more than you even managed to read about in the Bible or other places?
More than you ever imagined?
Were you really suffering a psychotic episode when you experienced such unexpected feelings of exquisite joy In response to an action you chose to take in soundness of mind?
When you read the Bible, especially the New Testament and even more especially the Gospels, do you find that many aspects of it resonate with you, regartrdless of factual accuracy?
Further, is it the so-called "facts" that resonate or something else, something deeper?
What details bring you joy and which erode your satisfaction, in what you've found?

Following AuldSoul's comments, you might sooner define art, beauty and love. But you know what you've experienced...

..cherish this gnosis and hold it close, for you have touched the Divine!

Undecided

Who knows what it is? So many different religions have some emotional happening that proves to them that they have met God. Look at the history of man and the many Gods that have appeared. According to science there is a part of our brain devoted to religious thoughts. I have no way to explain most of life's expierences. Explain falling in love with someone and the feelings you have. There is too much we can't really understand about life, especially the WHY of it all.

Ken P.

daystar

When the Divine reveals itself to you, it does so in ways that are meaningful to you at that particular time, in ways that you are ready to receive... because it arises from Within, not from Without , and as such, as everything is, it is "filtered" through your faculties of perception, and through your personality at that time.

Zico

I would say that the model of "in the eye of the beholder" must hold true for all such realities. Purely practical minded types who want everything classified and properly stored in its stale and sterile laboratory container must make room for the billions who recognize more to life than simply what is. All of our advances as humans are owed to those who seek what may be.

Thank you Auldsoul, certainly when writing this I didn't expect any exact definition, I said myself I can't define it. If the divine is so incredible that no human is able to understand it, I would certainly expect the same from any divine experience.

proplog2

The Watchtower is run by a bunch of men who had some "unspeakable" experience that led them to think they are annointed. That's what enables them to ignore reality and press on with their crazy teachings. It even allows them to "spiritually beat" on others because they feel they are saving the lives of others.

OnTheWayOut

I knew for a fact that God saved me from myself. He took control of my life and led me away from
a self-destructive course. But then he led me to Jehovah's Witnesses, the religion of my mother.
I had a background in understanding JW's, I knew that Christendom was wrong, holidays were
pagan.

Well, if God saved me, then led me back to JW's, it must be good. That's why I had such a hard
time actually breaking free when doubts surfaced.

My point is- that first experience of God taking control of my life and leading it to something better,
well, a loving God would never have led me to a mind-control cult, so I must have been wrong.
Be careful about any EXPERIENCE you have.

While I don't have a problem with others becoming born-again Christians, Muslims, other Spiritualists,
for myself- my faith in the unknown is destroyed. I accept the Golden Rule and hope to lead a good
life. I hope to be able to help others, even to the point of giving my life for another. But I am a skeptic
who won't hand money to a beggar, because he could be out there working. I will give him a sandwich,
in case I am wrong.

If God is as forgiving as Christians say he is, he will forgive me for being taken by a cult, then deciding
to avoid organized religion for the rest of my life. But, I am also growing and don't know what I will feel
like in a few years or a decade.

Defining the spiritual experience

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