Is practicing Capoeira wrong/bad/discouraged by Jehovah's Witnesses?

by aikichristian 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • aikichristian
    aikichristian

    My girlfriend used to be an avid Capoeira practicioner for over year. She has reaped many benefits from it: increased physical fitness, flexibility, some self-defense skills, and stress-relief. She enjoyed it.

    Unfortunately, an article came out in the Spanish version of the "Watchtower" ("Atalaya" in spanish) essentially saying that Capoeira should not be practiced because it has some spirituality stuff in it that was wrong. The article came out about year (or a little more) ago. So, her mother showed her this article and pressured her into giving up the martial art...therefore, causing her to give up one of her few, very effective stress-relieving activities.

    Now, my girlfriend had practiced this martial art and was very aware of its history. It did originate in Africa and many Africans had animistic beliefs. When the African slaves were brought to Brazil, they concealed these combative techniques within dance. During her time doing Capoeira, she knew of its history and roots and NEVER encountered problems or the topic of animism in her Capoeira. They did encourage values such as: family, practice, courtesy, hard-work, perseverence, hope, and the like. None of these are in conflict with Bible teaching. She was never asked, nor have they practiced, prayers/meditations to any person, place, or thing; or to perform dances for animistic reasons.

    I would like her to get back into Capoeira, but if this is true: that Capoeira should not be practiced, then she will not be able. I am also hesitant to recommend any other martial arts to her because of their origins and the concern that the Watchtower may discourage them as well. I practice Judo and Aikido, both are Japanese martial arts. Japan's dominate religion is Shinto. Should stop practicing Judo and Aikido for competition, self-defense, and exercise?

    Can someone please explain the reasoning behind it all? If possible, provide Scripture reference to support it. I just don't understand.

    To me, it is telling me something like:

    "You should not drink coffee that came from Africa because the person who cultivated it was an Animist."

  • zagor
    zagor

    I saw Capoeira practitioners few weeks ago on my trip to SA, loved it.

    Speaking of MA I remember few years ago seeing Tai Chi practitioner in one of WTBS videos yet Tai Chi has very "spiritual" origins for their standards.

    But as usual they don't know what they are talking about. Their approach is "ban first anything until proven innocent". Of course, their "research" is focused on fault finding so no wonder they see threat even in things like chess lmao. Though it still comes down to where you live I suppose. I was still going to odd meeting about 7 years ago when I started my Wing Chun Kung Fu training, everyone knew it, I wasn't even trying to hide it, yet no one asked me a thing, go figure...

    Anyway, welcome to board!

  • Chameleon
    Chameleon

    Yeah, I read that article too.

    Bunch of BS.

    The old a-holes in Brooklyn don't like it when their slaves do normal things with their time, because it takes away from the ineffective door-to-door bs.

    When they don't like something, they slap the "pagan" label on it. However, wedding anniversaries, baby showers, and most wedding traditions with "pagan" influences are ok.

  • badboy
    badboy

    WHAT, BABY SHOWERS ARE PAGAN!

  • ColdRedRain
    ColdRedRain

    It's discouraged by the Jehovah's Witnesses like how blood transfusions and birthday celebrations are discouraged by JW's. All 3 of those are based on some person that's barely literate in Hebrew and Greek's rendition of the bible trying to tell other people what to do mixed with horrible science and history.

    Capoeira is a martial art and or a dance that involves less spiritualism than a bridesmaid dress, which JW's are allowed to own. Depending on what kind of capoeria you practice, it can be a martial art or a form of dance.

    But of course, if you show up the Watchtower as being wrong as hell (Which they almost always are) you're told you're running ahead of the organization and they frown on you.

    Tell your girlfriend the overwhelming evidence that the JW's are wrong and tell her also "the only reason why you believe the watchtower's veiw on capoeria despite the evidence I showed you is because you want to believe in it so badly that you're willing to doubt hard evidence."

    That will either shut her up or have her break up with you as spiritually damaging to her faith. There is no loss in losing somebody trapped in that cult. They're already gone.

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    Awake-2005-April-8-pp.23-23 Capoeira—Dance, Sport, or Martial Art? By Awake! writer in Brazil “The balance and flexibility of acrobatics, the grace and strength of dance, the speed and cunning of the fight, and the rhythms of the music.” THAT is how one writer defined the essence of the Brazilian art named capoeira. According to one writer, capoeira has become “a truly global phenomenon.” Choreographer and researcher Edward Lunda calls it “a unique fusion between a dance, martial art, game, and ritual.” The New Encyclopædia Britannica describes it as a “folk dance.” How is it performed? Players and onlookers form a circle, inside of which “two men face each other, emulating the blows and parries of ‘the fight’ in time with the rhythms of the berimbau, or musical bow.” While there is much debate over the origins of capoeira, most researchers believe it is rooted in African tribal dances and rituals. It evidently made its way to Brazil during the days of slave trading. For decades the dance was practiced by slaves—despite the suppression of African culture by slave owners. When slavery was abolished in Brazil in 1888, “the newly freed slaves,” according to one Brazilian writer, “did not find a place for themselves within the existing socio-economic order.” As a result, many former slaves joined criminal gangs. Capoeira became a form of violent street combat. Armed with knives and sticks, these gangs terrorized neighborhoods. The journal Planet Capoeira admits that the street form of the dance was “rough stuff.” It explains: “Its teachers eliminated all the pretty moves that were not much use in real fights. For example, kicks were lower, and aimed at the body rather than the head. The hands were used in various ways to deceive or to deliver punches to the body or finger strikes to the eyes. There was no music, [and there were] no cartwheels and no acrobatics except those that were combat-oriented.” Not surprisingly, then, capoeira was banned nationwide in 1890. Convicted capoeiras faced prison sentences, up to 300 lashes, and even deportation. In the 1930’s, Manuel dos Reis Machado, known in capoeira circles as Mestre Bimba, opened an academy for teaching the art. Of course, since the practice was still illegal, he was careful not to say publicly that he was teaching capoeira. In 1937 after winning the approval of Brazilian President Getúlio Vargas, capoeira gained the status of an authentic Brazilian sport. Today an estimated 2,500,000 Brazilians practice capoeira, and it is taught in many public institutions, such as schools, universities, and military academies. Folk Dance or Martial Art? While capoeira has dancelike moves, many still classify it as a martial art. Augusto, who learned capoeira with his father, is convinced that “despite being a form of dance, it incites violence and violates principles of peace and love.”He observes: “It would be easy to use capoeira in a moment of anger to hurt someone.” Even when performers seek to avoid physical contact, a mistimed movement can result in serious injuries. Many also feel that capoeira has strong religious overtones. Pedro Moraes Trindade, a capoeira master from Bahia State, Brazil, describes it as “a fusion of the body and the mind.” He adds: “By viewing capoeira as just a sport, you minimize its history and its philosophy.” Edmilson, who practiced capoeira for eight years in Niterói, Rio de Janeiro, notes: “Some chulas [introductory songs] and rituals associated with capoeira are clearly related to spiritism.” A careful examination of Bible principles led Edmilson and Augusto, mentioned earlier, to quit performing capoeira. They decided that their spiritual and physical health were too precious to be put at risk. Although they once enjoyed the contagious rhythm and graceful movements of capoeira, they have decided that it is not compatible with the Bible, which teaches men to ‘learn war no more.’—Isaiah 2:4. [Footnote] The Portuguese word capoeira refers both to the art and to the person who practices it. [Picture on page 23] Capoeira is performed to the rhythm of the “berimbau” and the “atabaque,” traditional Brazilian musical instruments ******************************************************************************************************************** If the above article is going to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses, then I guess they had better get rid of those "neck-ties" also, because neck-ties" had their start from "Military" uniforms!

    pad THE COMPLETE HISTORY OF NECKTIES

    The necktie has its jump-start into fashion 333 years prior to the new Millennium. A King, a war, an usual army with an unusual dress and a noble cause and that no less set the stage for a fashion accessory that lives on to this day. "There is a clear-cut relationship between fashion on one hand, and power and wealth on the other. Fashion generally follows power and wealth." This old adage spells out the creation of the evolution on neckwear not its origin. However, without this acceptance of tying cloth around a man's neck in the 17th century, neckties would not have had their fateful way in the world.

    Neckties were an unusual thought as a fashion accessory in China in 221 B.C., the first known existence of fabric wrapping a man's neck. In the Neckwear industry this is an interestingly known fact, as a result of the excavation in China of the "Terracotta Army of the first Emperor of China" in 1970 - Among the 7000 terracotta soldiers un-earthed dressed in armor, many of which had a necktie wrapping their necks. The use of neckwear in China ended after the Han Dynasty took rule and neckwear would not be seen again in China until the 20th century. In 101 - 106 B.C. the Roman Military is seen in paintings with neckwear worn as a random uniform. Although non-Roman soldiers were probably the only to wear at "necktie" as it is common thought that the fashion rule of Rome kept necks free of cloth.

    Roman Soldiers.

    A little more then 1,600 years later, again in the form of military dress

    - is the introduction of men's neckwear seen by historians. Historians noticed for the third time, and also the first widely recognized appearance of neckwear, during a thirty-year 'religious" war in the early 17th century waged by King Charles V of Spain against reformists. Fashion trends developed as soldiers from all of Europe fought and cultures and dress clashed. Mutual respect and honor followed the battles that inflamed all of the European Continent creating changes that effected at the very least acceptance of religious belief, geography and national borders, cultural tolerance, government, a realignment of European power and influence, and even fashion.

    King Louis XIV of France.

    The dress accepted "fashionable" throughout most of Europe was lace ruffs around the neck. Even after the Middle Ages, dress was "ruled appropriate" for each class. War was expensive forcing many cost savings measures, and fashion was one cut back as men were to adorn ruffs with a strict law allowing men to wear ruffs only at funerals and other such occasions, ( ruffs were an expensive use of lace up top 15 meters ). The Croatian soldier wearing a cravatta or cravat ( English translation "necktie" ) as part of his uniform caught the attention of the continent. This Middle Age Custom or dress was in part, a form of identification on the battlefield and also part of folk costume. Wearing this neckwear in battle throughout Europe, the Croatian Soldiers gained respect - widely known for their mercenary ways. They were recruited along with German Soldiers by France, in 1635, after France declared war on Spain - entering the conflict, short on troops and willing to hire soldiers. The Croatian soldiers and their cravats were noticed not only by many European Nations including the fashionable French, but more importantly by royalty. By fate, around this time the shirt collar - turned down came into fashion, a result of the formal decree by all countries ruled by Spain, Austria and other Catholic countries banning ruffs" Capitulos de reformacias 1623". This was a time that the "golilla" a Spanish term for a linen and cardboard collar was accepted. And a fine cloth to wrap the collar closed was a natural.

    However, the necktie or cravat was only noted by the French, and not accepted as a fashion style. Only after two decades, did King Louis XIV of France, 1638 – 1715, fancy the cravat. The necktie-cravat was not "accepted attire" at court as old standing customs governed fashion. This changed when the Queen Mother Anne of Austria ( born in Spain ) died giving King Louis XIV rule of his right. A painting by Henri Testelin hangs at Versailles depicting King Louis XIV wearing a cravat. His necktie collection was extensive made from fine fabrics and styled by the most revered fashion designers of the time. He had is own "cravatier" who would lay our several cravats each day for the King to select which one he would wear. With-in one year of King Louis XIV acceptance of the cravatte, London’s elite became enamored by the fashion and King Charles II of England the British spent fortunes on expensive lace from Venice to have his neckwear made.

    The "Royal Cravates" regiment of Croatian soldiers, formed in 1667, wore cravats made of linen, lace, and muslin. Uniforms for soldiers were not commonplace among military and this neckwear dress was a distinctive dress. The Royal Cravats fighting as mercenaries for France and with the French support, suffered great losses politically while attempting a "coup" in a struggle for self rule. The country of Croatia never fully recovered from the failed conspiracy against their un-wanted rule by the Halsburgs. They were different, noble and they had a political cause that may have drawn sympathy from King Louis XIV. His acceptance of the Cravat was the birth of a fashion phenomenon that swept the globe and continuing today in men's attire. The Dutch, Belgians, and even English authors were fond of cravats but the credit for making the cravat fashionable was King Louis XIV. Thus, "fashion follows power and wealth."

    Napoleon.

    The French led the fashion world through the 18th Century up until the French Revolution of 1789-1799. English influence became predominant after the beginning of the 19th Century. “George” Beau Brummel 1778 - 1840 a leader in British Fashion of the day brought the necktie to great innovation influencing the Prince of Wales - later to become King George IV. Beau Brummel’s details of necktie knotting and design won him favour with England and most of Europe. Ties were still black or white and great discussion was involved about this in England, Germany, France, Italy and other European nations. In 1820 when King George V was crowned he introduced the black tie, which was not so popular with his guests – who often kept a white tie in their pockets. After the beginning of 19th Century colored neckties and neckties with patterns appeared partially due to schools, hunting, sports, and military. By the mid 19th Century neckties started to resemble modern day neckwear.

    Since the British had colonies throughout the world their necktie fashion spread to almost every continent with China the only exception. The French did not except the British fashion and tried to go their own way concerning men’s fashion and neckwear. Great men throughout history wore neckties; Napoleon I Emperor of France wore his cravat - a soldier from a young age, as did George Washington -soldier and father of the United States, Benjamin Franklin a statesman, and Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, ( certainly not a soldier ). Any painting depicting these honored men and other celebrated men will illustrate a cravat tied around their necks.

    The Duke and Dutchess of Windsor - now that is quite another story. It was not just by chance that the famous necktie knot became to be known worldwide as the Windsor.

    The shape and design of colors and patterns of the cravat changed and of course the military again dictated this. Before the turn of the 20th century, realizing that their soldiers were easy targets wearing bright red uniforms, the British were outfitted with drab green uniforms. Each regiment decided on their own, what tie to wear with a different stripe going across in a pattern of colors and stripe width. With this need to be individual the "Rep Stripe" necktie was born. Across the Atlantic American soldiers followed suite, however the stripes go the other way. European Rep Stripe vs. American Rep Stripe. The difference is the direction of the stripe from the left shoulder crossing the heart or from the right shoulder crossing the heart.

    This New World American vs. the Old World European look was distinctive and of course gave way to British designers fashion designers creating ties with poka-dots and colorful patterns. These designs produced and un-likely trend with retailers - much like a women's thought for fashion - but for a product meant for a man. This was a marketing ploy probably, as fashion houses took note that women were buying their men neckties. Appealing to their sense of color and style was natural.

    A major contribution to the necktie was by an American tie manufacturer Jesse Langsdorf. His idea was simple; three pieces of fabric cut and sewn together with the invetion of the slip stitch along the back of the tie closing the envelope. This stitch allowed the tie to move along the closing thread while tieing knots; iliminated ironing and necktie damage from the abuse of the taking the tie on and off. The necktie had reached it's present form in 1924 of the patented design.

    The modern necktie as we know it evolved from this form. Shrinking in width every 15 years or so from about 1 ½ inches to about 4 ½ inches in accordance with shirt collar and lapel width and shape and the shape of a jacket opening. Salvador Dali created the first recognized novelty ties taking his artwork and ilustrating ties much to the surprise of the art world. Peter Max among others followed with unique neckties for a man to express himself. The 80's saw the "Power Tie" and the 90's saw casual dress take it's toll. Still neckwear remained a statement of being serious about business and of course being silly. The silly side gave way to fun ties. Novelty neckties illustrating themes, hobbies, Van Gogh Art work and Marilyn Monroe, etc. by the Ralph Marlin Company became wildly popular in the 90's. At a time when fashion was pushing all limits Gianni Versace created neckties with enough emotion, color and vivid design to stop traffic and get recognized. And then came Rush Limbaugh with enough color and abstract patterns to cause a national phenomenon in America.

    Neckties had truly become an important fashion accessory using color and pattern to create a means of a man's self-expression. If the King of France, King Louis XIV could have ever imagined what he started. Well that is one the French can claim for the record.

    http://www.abcneckties.com/necktiehistory.html Nevada-

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate

    Following the same "logic":

    A loyal JW would not wear hats or other forrms of "headwear"- because witches also wear hats

    A loyal JW would not use brooms- because witches also use brooms

    A loyal JW would not use vacuum cleaners- because vacuum cleaners are the anti-typical, modern-day, fulfillment of brooms!

    BA- Yeeeeeeeeeeee-hawwwwwwww!

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Following the same "logic":

    A loyal JW would not wear hats or other forrms of "headwear"- because witches also wear hats

    A loyal JW would not use brooms- because witches also use brooms

    A loyal JW would not use vacuum cleaners- because vacuum cleaners are the anti-typical, modern-day, fulfillment of brooms!

    BA- Yeeeeeeeeeeee-hawwwwwwww!

    Nice points Bro A! And let us not forget that neckties are in reality phallic symbols!

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    Better go ahead and stop baptizing at the conventions because "baptism" is also from "pagan"origins! Watchtower-1993-April-1-p.4

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Are you a JW? Is she? Or both?

    If you are Jw and she is not - why does she care?

    If she is Jw and you are not - her sin's are much greater than the martial arts, according to her 'leadership'. {And you should run!}

    If you are both Jw, and want to stay that way, just listen to Momma and don't ask questions.

    Jeff

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