by BFD 142 Replies latest watchtower bible
Heathen,
Jesus did indeed say to love him.
"In answer Jesus said to him: 'If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him. He that does not love me does not observe my words..." John 14:23-24
Heathen,
Kenneson pointed out a good Scripture showing that Jesus did indeed say that we must love Him, and I am posting more here:
Luke 14:25-27 (NLT): A large crowd was following Jesus. He turned around and said to them, “If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple.
John 5:23 (ESV): that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Ephesians 6:24 (ESV): Grace be with all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with love incorruptible.
1 Corinthians 16:21-24 (ESV): I, Paul, write this greeting with my own hand. If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed. Our Lord, come! The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you. My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen.
John 8:42 (ESV): Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
John 16:27 (ESV): for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
John 21:15-17 (ESV): When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.
John 14:13-15 (ESV): Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
1 John 5:1 (ESV): Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
John 15:9 (ESV): As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
Philippians 3:7-8 (ESV): But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord.For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
1 Peter 1:7-9 (ESV): so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 3:15 (ESV): but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
Romans 8:35 (ESV): Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 (ESV): For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Ephesians 3:17-19 (ESV): so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith--that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
Ephesians 4:15 (ESV): Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
Ephesians 5:2 (ESV): And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
Philippians 1:20-21 (ESV): as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
1 Timothy 1:14 (ESV): and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 1:13 (ESV): Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
Philemon 1:5 (ESV): because I hear of your love and of the faith that you have toward the Lord Jesus and for all the saints,
Interesting thread, the Bible does not say that those that have it all right are the true disciples
John 13:34,35,
Try not to be dogmatic but work on faith and love, I don't believe in the Trinty but for all pracitcal purposes, Christ reigns supreme until he hands back the Kingdom to his Father. For now he is everything unto God's Glory.
abr
LittleToe said:
Whether Unitarianism or Trinitarianism is correct is irrelevant as there will be believers and detractors on one side or the other. It divides, instead of unites. My point? Merely that there are more important issues than continuing 1600 year old squabbles...
So, are you saying that the truth about who God is, is just a "squabble" that's not very important? Are you saying we shouldn't worry that much about it because it divides us instead of unites us?
How do you explain or interpret the following Scriptures?
Luke 12:51-53 (ESV): Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Matthew 15:12-14 (ESV): Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."
John 8:19, 24 (NLT): Jesus answered, “Since you don’t know who I am, you don’t know who my Father is. If you knew me, you would also know my Father. ... That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I Am who I claim to be, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 2:21-24 (ESV): I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
1 John 4:15 (ESV): Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:5 (ESV): Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
1 John 5:9-13 (ESV): If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
My question to you, LittleToe, is this: Can a person receive eternal life without believing that Jesus is The Son of God? But, can we just believe that Jesus is any kind of "son of God," or did the Apostle John have a specific meaning in mind when he wrote that we must believe that Jesus is The Son of God? If he did have a certain, specific meaning in mind, doesn't that mean we have to believe that Jesus is The Son of God the same way that John did?
Did John preach Jesus was a "son of God" like the created angels or created humans are, or did he preach Jesus as The Unique, One-And-Only Begotten Son of The Father who has the same Nature as The Father -- Very God of Very God?
Romans 10:9-10, 13 (ESV): because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. ... For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
2 John 1:5-11 (ESV): And now I ask you, dear lady--not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning--that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Will Rodgers said "The difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and religion"
Christ said "By this all will know you are my disciples"
Does it make a difference if we are not loving?
abr
avidbiblereader said:
Christ said "By this all will know you are my disciples"
Does it make a difference if we are not loving?
True, Jesus true disciples will be loving. I agree 100% with that. But what kind of love is not based on truth? Does love accept lies and falsehood? Does love condone wrongdoing? Does love overlook serious crimes or sins?
True, Jesus true disciples will be loving. I agree 100% with that. But what kind of love is not based on truth?
No all love has to based on truth, God's Word is the only truth, it is not a form of worship based on an organization and what they establish as truth. One does not neccesarily have to be reading, thinking of or anything with the Bible to show love.
Does love accept lies and falsehood? Does love condone wrongdoing? Does love overlook serious crimes or sins?
Paul already gave the description of love in 1 Cor 13:4-8 According to the NLT it says
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. 8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages [ a ] and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever!
Now looking at your questions, does it accept falsehoods and lies. I am not the judge but it would depend on the motive behind it and how knowledgeable the person was of their actions. Paul said that true love endures through every circumstance. We also do not have the gift of reading hearts as God and Christ can. Again the motive and if we can be re-educated and acceptable to what we may either believe or teach as wrongdoing or lies.
Never condones Wrongdoing but is patient, never rejoices with unrighteousness, but then again as Paul said it never loses faith but is hopeful that we get IT.
Does it overlook serious crimes and sin. IT DID IN OUR CASE, that is why Christ came in the first place.
How tolerant will God be with all these teachings? WHo knows? It is not our call, rather as Paul said allow yourself to readjusted but remember you can misinterpret the scriptures but you cannot misinterpret love.
abr
It looks to me that you are just proving my point . I quoted the command that jesus gave of loving the father , there are only two commandments that he actually stated , you must love YHVH God with all your heart , mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself . Also those scriptures you are quoting are showing that jesus does not want lip service , he wants obedience and that will be the only way he knows that you do love him is by obeying his words .
Luke 10:27,28
Heathen, the Bible is really a simple book, there are parts of it we cannot understand like a child but when it comes to love, it is simple, you can misinterpret the scriptures but you cannot misinterpret love. Yes I agree with you. love God and Neighbor and as Christ said to the scribe.
You are not far off from entering the Kingdom
abr
Heathen said (03/22/07):
I think Mathew 28:18 clarifies the trinity controversy . If jesus was given all authority then he never had it to begin with . John 14:28 also shows jesus talking about a higher power and authority . I feel tho that these days to use the capital G in God while talking about jesus is OK. mighty God he is and not almighty God.
As Barry correctly pointed out, Jesus willingly took a position a little lower than angels (which means that He originally had a position ABOVE the angels, which agrees with the rest of the Bible). Jesus Himself made it very clear that after His resurrection He was going to be RESTORED to His PREVIOUS GLORY.
John 17:5 (ESV): And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Philippians 2:6-7 (God's Word Translation): Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality. Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.
Hebrews 2:9 (ESV): But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Hebrews 1:3-4 (ESV): ... After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
That is why Jesus said in Matthew chapter 28, that all authority had been GIVEN to Him -- it had been given BACK to Him after His Resurrection.
