Im not tough

joelbear

About a week after the September 11th thing when I was feeling devastated and in total despair, I went through an "I give up" phase.

I came out of that phase (or thought I did) with a new gung ho, I ain't gonna take no crap concept of myself. You probably saw my post about marshall arts. This was gonna all be part of this new tough, ready to fight, kind of guy.

Well, I'm not tough. I don't like fighting. I can't take a punch well, physically or verbally. The more I try to act tough, the sillier I look and the more desperate I become since I know absolutely nothing about being tough. Its just not me.

I grew up being the one who kept peace in the family. Its a big part of why I have made some of the major life decisions I have made (not coming out and living as homosexual until I was 30, not going to college, etc.) My decisions about my life were always measured against how upset the family would be and to be perfectly honest, to keep me from being verbally berated by my father and brother and to keep my mother from being berated for defending me.

I'm not a fighter because in my heart and soul, I know its not the right way.

The real reason I wrote the whole "evil board" post was not as much because of You Know as because of Tally's thread with the hook line about it perhaps being JWs dancing and celebrating on the roofs of Brooklyn. I decided to fight him on that thread. Then Mr. tough Joel decided to just make a snide remark about "the picture". Well, the old addage about not biting off more than you can chew came up real quick. I got into a fight I was not prepared for and I got myself in deeper and deeper.

And another thing. I am not ready to give up hope on my illusory, perhaps mythical peaceful international brotherhood. Those witnesses I grew up with weren't perfect but they were my brothers and sisters and our little congregation was working hard on the brotherhood thing. I think a lot of witnesses are. I think a lot of non-witnesses are too. Perhaps part of achieving the goal requires fighting and battles. I will leave that to tougher people than me.

At least my little experiment in toughness happened here where all I could get was a bruised ego and suffer some well deserved embarrassment and it happened where a few people care enough about me to look over it and offer their ongoing support.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

hugs

Joel

individuals wife

Well, I'm not tough. I don't like fighting. I can't take a punch well, physically or verbally. The more I try to act tough, the sillier I look and the more desperate I become since I know absolutely nothing about being tough. Its just not me.

((((Joel))))) Just be yourself - you are a wonderful person, you don't need to change - we appreciate you for who you are, somehow a tough Joelbear doesnt sound quite right!

bigboi

I think Joel is being himself. All those years he had to act like a grownup, deny his true self and not to mention all the WTS bullcrap. Man, you deserve to vent every now and then. I think it's good you choose to do it here rather than in your real life. Well, I hope you don't do it in your real life. Anyways, a guy as understanding and openminded as you are deserves a little in return. You are alright by me Joel. Don't change.

ONE....

bigboi

they don't knowwwwwwwww

who we beeeeeeeeeee!!!!

by... y'all know who, and if ya dont know then you ain't cool.

outsider_looking_in

Your tougher than you think Joel,being able to admit to your mistakes and stand up and be counted takes alot of courage.
Life is one long learning process and we all will make mistakes and do things we regret.

p.s heres my view on homosexuals,it,s genetic,you have taken more of a certain gene from your mother,science will tell us this one day!

Esmeralda

There are enough tough people in the world, Joel.

You don't need to be one of them. *hug*

Heaven knows, I couldn't be no matter how hard I tried.

love
es

teejay

Hello, Joel,

I think there's a lot going on with you, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, Joel. It's good you've made a step in coming to know yourself a little better. I think Lisa was absolutely correct in her analysis of your really believing the JW brotherhood thing, and you commented on it here. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that dream. It's a good one.

I wonder what keeps you from going back, other than your sexual identity of course. I could be wrong, but it seems to be where you belong. Your memories of your time spent as a dub are precious and you don't seem to have a bitterness that many of us have. Lots of people have found exactly what they are looking for inside the walls of the Kingdom Hall, and that's their right. You seem to be one of those.

Just a thought.

Peace,
tj

For the record, Tally never said it was JWs dancing on the roof. That's the way you read it... maybe that's what he wanted the reader to think, but he never said that. You thought he did, and that's why you spoiled for a fight, only it was the wrong time and place.

You have a loyalty to the organization. There's nothing wrong with that. I will also not bash the rank and file members of the organization that I knew and know. Many of them are very decent people, and I will defend them whenever I feel like it.

THE ORGANIZATION is a different matter, though. Many of us have come to the thought that Dorothy was right... there is no Oz on earth where there are only good thoughts, no Kindly Wizard with answers to every problem. I read a quote the other day attributed to Lily Tomlin. She said, "We?re all in this alone." I tend to think she was right.

Ranchette

Joel,
I'm a dreamer too.
Check out my post called PARIDISE HOPE FOR THE NON RELIGIOUS APOSTATE.
I moved it up to the first page so you could see it if you havent already.
Ranchette

dedalus

I sorta snapped at you in another thread, Joel, so I wanted to respond more calmly here ...

The real reason I wrote the whole "evil board" post was not as much because of You Know as because of Tally's thread with the hook line about it perhaps being JWs dancing and celebrating on the roofs of Brooklyn. I decided to fight him on that thread.

Tally goes too far, I agree. His aggressive antics do damage to his argument. But his argument, buried in all that harsh vitriol, is basically sound: based on the literature of Witnesses, we imagine a group of people who would dance and cheer on the rooftops as the world crumbles around them. It's a literary extrapolation, if you will, and it makes sense. Maybe the "brothers and sisters" you once knew don't fit that profile, but you'd never know it from the literature they distribute door-to-door.

And another thing. I am not ready to give up hope on my illusory, perhaps mythical peaceful international brotherhood. Those witnesses I grew up with weren't perfect but they were my brothers and sisters and our little congregation was working hard on the brotherhood thing. I think a lot of witnesses are.

I think this is pretty illusory, and you can bet that your old "brothers" and "sisters" don't defend your homosexuality nearly as much you defend them. Besides, your homosexuality doesn't even matter. The minute your disfellowshipping was announced, the majority, if not all of them, were ready to drop you cold. I'm not saying that it didn't cost them emotionally to do that, but they did it. I don't call that "working hard on the brotherhood thing." You can't have a "brotherhood" when you're always prepared to shoot your best friend in the back, without even knowing why.

Now, this DB isn't a "brotherhood." I'll never know you well enough to call you my "brother," and I won't cheapen the fraternal moniker by pretending that I can. But I, and many other friends on this board, have come to your defence and sung your praises again and again. Sincerely. Personally, I've even forwarded pages from your personal website to people I thought might learn something from them, or just get a laugh. Doesn't that mean anything to you? Why do you spawn half a dozen threads about a few negative remarks made by people who are regarded as extremists, without acknowledging in equal proportion the dozens of people who rally around you?

It's more than "a few people [who] care enough about [you] to look over it and offer their ongoing support." You've got the majority vote, and you don't even realize it. So try to remember that, my hairy friend.

Dedalus

mommy

(((hugs)))
Joel, you said

I am not ready to give up hope on my illusory, perhaps mythical peaceful international brotherhood. Those witnesses I grew up with weren't perfect but they were my brothers and sisters and our little congregation was working hard on the brotherhood thing. I think a lot of witnesses are.

You are correct, but it does not include you. They banished you because you do not fit in their brotherhood.

I think a lot of non-witnesses are too.

This is what you need to strive for. Find your brotherhood, and cling to them.

Everyone needs to express their opinion, they need to be heard. You are no different than any other human. Perhaps others are better at expressing themselves then you are, does that make their points more valid, obviously not. Joel, you are such a good, kind hearted person who deserves to be selfish every now and then, don't feel guilty about it! Take time for yourself, and feel free to express yourself, anyway you see fit.

I love your heart Joel, and the person that you are. Don't ever change, just find happiness with yourself.
wendy

In a controversy the instant we feel anger, we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

Dogpatch

Hang in there, Joelbear. You already have a worldwide brotherhood right here. Remember this is a BOARD though. People do and say things they would never do in person. On my board, I had a guy call me everything in the book because I asked him to calm down on attacking the Catholics there. He flipped out!
Then we talked on the phone, and became good friends. I never took the threads off my board, they are still there somewhere. It makes me proud. :-))

I think if you met Tallyman, Fred and others in person you would have some really good friends forever. That has been my experience with this sort of thing. Keep looking for the best in others, and be yourself. Life is too short NOT to have a good time!
Randy Watters
Don't rent this movie! A girl friend wrote and directed it:

Im not tough

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