Is It Impossible To Reach A Devout JW ??? (page 3)

timetochange

To be fair, there are many people outside of the JWs who prefer to follow rather than lead.

Ed.

Is the question is it possible to deconvert a devout JW (or any believer)?

There is a moral question here. One of the issues many have with proselyters is that they are making several assumptions, they have a better way of life than yours, they have the right to offer it to you, they are obligated to offer it to you for their (and your) own good, the refusal of the message will generally damage your friendship somewhat while acceptance will generally increase it and finally the idea that if your intended convert will just listen to your argument it will be blindingly obvious that you are right.

With certain caveats (you are not under any divine mission unless you've just jumped out of a frying pan) its a similar scenario should you seek to deconvert someone. You must accept that you are merely proselyting your current worldview when you try and reach someone and that you are now approaching the most hardened of targets for your message. Then factor in how much success was achieved while you where a convert and you have the measure of the problem. You may feel an overriding urge to save them because you can see what a disaster they are involved in - funny enough I used similar arguments to justify the urgency of my own missionary efforts.

skeptic1914

Doubting Bro said,

For myself, I could debate until the cows came home but there is no way anyone could have reached me. Thats because I wasn't really listening to the other side, I was thinking about what I was going to say next.

JW or any thoroughly-indoctrinated person seems to have an uncanny ability to block out rational thought when presented with ideas that conflict with their own. People believe what they WANT to believe and many are too lazy to think for themselves.

There is actually an interesting WT article that touches on these points (7/15/03 pp 21-23 "Thonk Stright-Act Wisely").

In dealing with some of my family members it has become obvious that the truth is not that important to many in "The Truth".

Skeptic1914

greendawn

It's not possible since they are so well mind conditioned with all that complex of thoughts, the world is satanic they are always out to put doubt in your mind and take away from the mother organisation to a soon to be destruction, the FDS is God appointed and has the truth if we leave him where can we go, why abandon jehovah and bring reproach to his name etc it's a diabolical spider web of deceit.

elliej

When I was first associated with the JW's I heard a lot that in order to learn the truth a person had to be hungry, honest, and humble. In my experience JW's lack humility. They believe that they have cornered the market on truth and are unwilling to accept that they might be wrong. they are willing and able to go to great lengths in deceiving themselves and others in order to hang on to that belief that they are right. I think that the only way to reach a devout JW, or any JW for that matter, is to happen upon the one doubt that they have. And they all have at least one, you just have to find it.

willyloman

I've come to believe that JWs are all about relationships, just like any other group of people. You can argue that it's a cult, that they practice mind-control, and so on, but every organized group of people does share beliefs, thinking, behaviior and social concepts. People form relationships by opening up and sharing the space that normally exists between them (what one usually calls "my space") and that forms a bond, almost a third person - a combination of the two people in the relationship (what we call "us").

To leave the dubs, you have to withdraw from that common space. That leaves two personalities where there used to be three. There's you and him, or her, but there's no longer any "us."

Ths is what makes the process so hard, and so painful. Throw in the whole "God's chosen ones" thing and the attendant guilt trip, and you've got a difficult wall to climb. That's why dubs who know better, stay in.

parakeet

".....but still they cling on and resist any sort of intellectual discussion as to why the Witnesses are off soooooo many times.....What gives???"

Gayle

Not possible. I think only the individual himself/herself can do it. Only the individual can reach out who realizes that he deep within needs more understanding, more sense, more individual honesty. It's scary. Why would anyone want to find out he was conned and then to feel "stupid" and robbed of his best (youth, money, education, his heart, the real story?) However, I have found and still finding that it is worth it.

jgnat

Methinks they protest too much.

Haven't you found that the most devout...anything, anti-porn, anti-gay, anti-crime have got a closetful of conflict? I suspect that some of the most "devout" JW's have deep, deep doubts about their choices. But for whatever reason, they've decided the alternative is unbearable.

I feel most for the seniors. They've invested a lifetime...for what? There's a whole pocketful of widows in our congregation who literally have nothing but the society. The current organization provides pitiful support to the rank and file, and it has a fraction of the zeal. Prophecies are mumbled. The society is in a defensive posture. The order of the day is deny, deny, deny. Does anyone outside the organization take them as serious defenders of the truth? ha. I wouldn't take away what little faith the seniors have in their sunset years. What would it get them?

uninformed

willyloman,

I think that you wrote a profound comment above:

I've come to believe that JWs are all about relationships, just like any other group of people. You can argue that it's a cult, that they practice mind-control, and so on, but every organized group of people does share beliefs, thinking, behaviior and social concepts. People form relationships by opening up and sharing the space that normally exists between them (what one usually calls "my space") and that forms a bond, almost a third person - a combination of the two people in the relationship (what we call "us").