by What-A-Coincidence 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Jourles, your points are all reasonable
Here's the difference...the current military would not willingly allow themselves to be involved in a scenario like that. There would be resistance and leaks. It would have to be the CIA and they are still far weaker than in 1960.
Incompetence explains eveything
They couldn't immediately put that into place even if they were a competent administration, which they're not.
I find these arguments ineffective and I'll tell you why. Prior to 9/11, I was flying back and forth from Houston to Denver every week for about 3 months. In my laptop backpack, I carried a bunch of hand tools. Some of these tools consisted of - screwdrivers, pliers, and box cutters. I was installing a new wireless data network in Denver and it required these tools. The box cutters were used to cut and strip the weatherproofing on coaxial connections on antennas and radio equipment. Of all these weeks of flying, I was questioned twice about these tools - both times at DIA. One time, the security people at the xray scanners almost confiscated my tools. Mind you, these are metallic objects that could kill someone very easily.
Back to my point - All it would have taken was a directive from the president for these security checkpoints to start confiscating these types of objects. Simple as that. No long term or outlandish planning would be required to do this. Just an xray machine, a metal detector, and a trash can. Items which every airport already had. I don't buy into the argument that 1,000's more airport personnel would be required to do what I had already been through. Prior to 9/11, I would have understood the need to confiscate my job tools. But no one ever told them to do so until it was too late. Or was that the plan in the first place?
All it would have taken was a directive from the president for these security checkpoints to start confiscating these types of objects
Good lord are you really that ignorant of how our own government works? The President (even if Bush was evil as some seem to think he is) can't just direct that private property be confiscated. One of the reasons for the grounding of all aircraft was the need to adopt and implement emergency rules for dealing with the problem.
Badwillie: I'm still waiting for an answer.
but it's a leap from there to "because people have the ability to conspire, 9/11 must have been a conspiracy," which is, I think, what our defeated and erstwhile friend was arguing.
All I'm saying is, it would be foolish to take a firm standing on either side. Some will take the side of what appears to be the rational and easily explainable non-conspiracist conclusions all the while labeling the administration as being incompetent, while others will run with the conspiracy. I was just using Northwoods as an example of why it would not be totally out of mind to view some aspects of 9/11 as a conspiracy. There are still quite a few unanswered questions out there which lead some to believe that a conspiracy exists. And as long as the *potential* proof remains under lock and key by the government due to "national security," there is no way in telling whether or not we should give credence to some of these conspiracist's theories.
The President (even if Bush was evil as some seem to think he is) can't just direct that private property be confiscated.
So under whose ultimate authority can TSA take away your belongings at the airport? What would happen if you walked through security at the airport with a 4 oz plastic, see-through bottle of shampoo?
Who signed into being the Department of Homeland Security?
who are you?: In fact, when is the last time you guys saw the great outdoors?
The Great Outdoors was a good comedy. I miss John Candy.
Did I mention, I like kittens? I really do. Lightly buttered and slow roasted is best.
What I want to know is how the aliens knew to abduct Jimmy Hoffa. Anyone got the answer to that one? Huh? If not, STFU!
These conspiracy theories are bull %#@!. Take a $10 camera recording one frame every second and you will certainly miss an object moving at 650 mph.
Care to show the camera footage that DID record the plane crash?
> Who signed into being the Department of Homeland Security?
Well, Congress put together legislation mandating it, and then Bush signed it. I think that's the point you're missing. Congress makes the law, the Executive branch enforces the law. Bush ultimately administers the DHS, but he does so under the authority of Congress, who act under the authority of the American people.
Quote: "And taking a firm stand on either side of this coin is foolish."
No it's not. The minute you realize an argument is horseshit, is the minute you should put that argument aside and look for better explanations.
The vast majority of the conspiracy theories are easily recognized as horseshit by anyone with two brain cells.
LIHOP, on the other hand, is not outlandish at all. If all a president with a penchant for armaggedon theology (or good vs evil/christians vs muslim philosophy) has to do to get support for a war or wars he's been itching to start is *nothing*, or better yet, simply *not enough*, then it should be no surprise that the Bush administration would not listen to and even marginalized people like Richard Clark, who were fairly screaming that Al-Quida was going to attack the USA.
But even that doesn't necessarily indicate so much a plan of inaction (though there certainly could have been malice aforethought, I have no doubt, especially by people as plugged in as Cheney), as a foul attitude and horribly misplaced priorities.
LIHOP is a whole other thread, and I think it's hard to prove that one as well. I think it has more to do with incompetence than anything else.
