Did the heavenly calling cease in 1935? Not anymore!

by AnnOMaly 288 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cultswatter
    cultswatter

    Hoping4change said

    Just thought I'd chime in that,for this year at least and still, the "144,000" is still to be regarded as a literal number. That it is a literal # was mentioned during the talk at the memorial.

    But that elder who gave the talk probably hasn't clued into the 1935 doctrine changes yet. I mean 99.99% of all JWs still haven't got a clue about these changes. I've asked a few JWs and they have not heard of any changes!!. I predict a change from literal to symbolic for the 144,000 IT JUST MAKES SENSE

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    The WTS is just not the same religion most JWs joined....is it?

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    I don't know if this has been said on the board or thread but I think it will triger more JWs to claim they are of the heavenly class.

  • dawg
    dawg

    OK, so i tried to click on this and instead was sidetracked by a cut out cartoon that had on panties and a bra... I was a instructed to "dress" the cartoon... I found myself trying to undress the cartoon... Am I freaking sick or what... I must have a fetish for cartoons!

  • pollyana
    pollyana

    Keep the discussion going guys! Does anyone have the May 1 WT yet? I'm fascinated about it's contents. An another note, maybe this has been mentioned but anyway. Am I the only one that thinks the WTS doctrine and behavior closely parallels Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984? The WTS could easily rename themselves the Ministry of Love or Ministry of Truth and I don't think the r&f would even blink. These guys rewrite their own history on a daily basis. What really creeps me out is the newspeak rubbish. I can feel the WTS actually sucking words and freedom concepts out of the r&f mind by banning apostate literature. I wonder when the WTS will finally announce they've been at war with Oceania and have always been at war with Oceania.

  • slimboyfat
  • wannabe
    wannabe

    If I may be allowed!

    I'm wondering why they don't see a scripture as simple as Revelation 7:1-4 that talks about the final sealing of the Heavenly Calling? Four Angels are holding tight the four winds of detruction while the final sealing work is brought to a completion. Those Angels still have a grip on those four winds; only when they release them will the final calling and choosing be brought to a finish. They are still hanging on to them right at this very moment. Doesn't that tell us all, there's stiill opportunity for a few more? How many? Beats me! Doesn't that also tell us, no one can do the choosing but the One with the seal? The Angel? Who has to be the Christ in Angelic form. Since he's the one who does all the choosing of them under the direction of his Father. {John 15:16} Wannabe

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, for that matter, where does the Bible ever say that there will be one group of Christians living forever on earth and another group living forever in Heaven?

  • Listener
    Listener

    I was going to start a new topic but found this one so am adding my thoughts as to some additional problems that have occurred due to their change of the 1935 calling no longer ending in 1935.

    The first issue due to the change is how they can now claim that they were able to identify the great crowd around that date, as they did not exist before? It was understood it to be a fulfillment of Revelations Chaper 7.

    Because the sealing of the 144,000 takes place before Armageddoneit doesn't really matter if the sealing was completed in 1935 or some later date before Armageddon but they have taught that the great crowd was not identified until after the sealing had been completed. Revelations 7.9 states "After these things I looked, an behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples ....." (the great crowd). I believe that back in 1935 what they began to teach that the great crowd could now be identified as the sealing of the anointed was complete. Therefore if the sealing is not complete then the great crowd could not have been identified and as the sealing is still not complete then there is no great crowd yet.

    The other problem is that by saying the sealing is not complete and wasn't in 1935 then they can no longer claim that all JWs before 1935 were only of the anointed as they have no scriptural basis to back this up.

    This had been their teaching about the great crowd being identified after the sealing was completed with some WTBS articles

    W 72 3/15

    However, especially since 1935 there has been the gathering of God’s larger family, the "great crowd" having the earthly hope, that John saw after the sealing of the 144,000.—Isa. 52:7, 8; Rev. 7:4, 9; 14:1.

    W 82 2/15

    When we consider how Jehovah has been dealing with his people during the ‘harvest period,’ it seems evident that the heavenly calling in general was completed about the year 1935, when the hope of the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-17 was properly understood to be an earthly one. This has worked out just as Jehovah foreknew that it would. As Revelation 7:3, 4 shows, there would be a final ‘sealing’ of the remaining ones of spiritual Israel. But, during this time just before the "great tribulation," a "great crowd" without any limitation as to number would manifest itself. They would retain their natural hope of living on earth, not being "born again" with heavenly life in view.—Psalm 115:16; John 3:1-8.

    W 99 2/1

    At a convention held from May 30 to June 3, 1935, in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., Brother Rutherford gave a landmark talk entitled "The Great
    Multitude." This group, "which no man was able to number," would appear as the sealing of the 144,000 of spiritual Israel drew to an end.

    United in Worship para 6

    In time the prescribed but limited number of 144,000 would be filled. The final sealing of these spiritual Israelites as approved would be near. (Rev. 7:1-8) Then Jehovah, by means of his spirit and the understanding of his Word that he made possible for his visible organization, would direct matters so as to fulfill another part of his purpose, as described in Revelation 7:9-17. A "great crowd" out of all nations would be gathered, with the thrilling prospect of surviving the great tribulation and living forever in perfection amid an earthly Paradise. When we consider what has actually occurred, it seems evident that the heavenly calling in general was completed by about the year 1935 C.E., when the earthly hope of the "great crowd" was clearly discerned.

    Kingdom Come 16 para 2

    Revelation chapter 7 describes it thus: "After" the sealing of the "little flock" of Kingdom heirs, numbering 144,000, "a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues" is seen standing before God’s throne.

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