If this has been brought up already, I apologize. But, we just received the latest magazine with the title, "Must We Always Tell The Truth?". I was curious to see how they handled this topic, with their "theocratic warfare" (aka lying) in mind.
The first thing that caught my eye (pg. 6) was the bold print; "Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie". Following that it says; "Moreover, we need to consider whether the person asking for information is entitled to a comprehensive answer." Then they go into all sorts of examples to show where it's alright to lie. (Such lovers of truth)
So, thanks to the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" I now know how to lie correctly with a "clean conscience". Silly me, here I was thinking that all lying was wrong! LOL
Cellist
"Must We Always Tell The Truth?" WT Feb.1
by Cellist 16 Replies latest jw friends
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Cellist
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under_believer
Oh, I think they're right, there is a time and place where lying is not immoral.
It's the double standard they employ that gets me. -
AlmostAtheist
>>"Every lie is an untruth, but not every untruth is a lie"
Anybody got a dictionary they'd be willing to donate to the Society's Writing Department?
Dave
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Cellist
under_believer, I agree. It's the double standard that irritates me.
Dave, Interestingly, they do quote "a dictionary". 'A dictionary defines a lie as "an assertion of something known or bleieved by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive."' No mention of which dictionary.
Actually the article makes very good points. It's the fact that they try to present themselves to the world (and themselves) as completely truthful people. They used to be proud of the fact that they ALWAYS told the truth. Now they're trying to give themselves permission to be human and lie when needed, but still hold on to the image of being more truthful than everyone else.
Cellist -
Madame Quixote
. . . trying to give themselves permission to lie about and hide all the abusers and pedophiles and financial vagaries of their little corporation . . .
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Honesty
untruth: A false statement
lie: A statement that deviates from or perverts the truth
Hmmm......
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jaguarbass
In this day and age, no one deserves the truth. Everyones working an angle, playing a con. Can you tell I'm an ex jw who works in a jail.
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JWdaughter
Lie: falsehood, untruth, fib, fabrication, cock-and-bull-story, (tall) tale, whopper. v. prevaricate, twist the evidence or facts, commit perjury, exaggerate, fib. Misrepresent ofr distort r fasify the evidence. To be deceptive. From the Oxford Dictionary. I didn't see any thing about "an assertion of something known or bleieved by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive."
Interestingly, when I punched the phrase "an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive." -----This is what came up--and I found it interesting what the address is:
http://www.americanvaluesare.com/discussion-guides/what-is-not-an-american-value/
"Why definitions? Words are extremely powerful, and dictionaries are always very precise about what vocabulary they use in their definitions. Mendacity is a word rarely used today in common practice. Before going through the definitions, ask the group what they think mendacity means. Once they are on the right track, then go through the definitions of “mendacity,” “lie,” and “to lie” and discuss the differences.
The group may end up with the conclusion that the concept of a lie is very complex, and just as difficult to grasp as the concept of the truth. For example, in order for something to be a lie, must there be intent to mislead or deceive behind the statement, or must someone else simply believe the statement to be untrue, regardless of intent?
Mendacity is a habit that many people fall into at some point in their life, whether the lies are small or large. Ultimately a government will always be dependent upon its people. Therefore, it is impossible that a government will not wrestle with its own honesty, just as people do. As citizens it is our duty to decide how far mendacity in government can go.
Is it ever acceptable for a government to be dishonest? Are there times when a government must be secretive or blur the truth? How truthful, in general, do the group members believe the government is or has been throughout history? All of these are very large issues, which will be discussed throughout this guide. After the group discussion on the given definitions, have the group create their own definition for mendacity as it applies to the government. (Definitions taken from Merriam-Webster Online.)
Mendacity
1. n. The quality or state of being mendacious. (Mendacious is an adjective defined as “given to or characterized by deception or falsehood or divergence from absolute truth.”)
Lie
1. n. an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive
2. n. an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker
3. n. something that misleads or deceives
4. n. a charge of lying
To lie
1. v. to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2. to create a false or misleading impression.
Voices in History
Quotations help to point out values that are important to American society, or in this case, to point out the habits which fall short of our aspirations. The following collection of quotes indicates that the issue of mendacity has long been a part of our country’s dialogue on government. Many other quotes can be found by encouraging group members to explore the Internet. Ask the group to discuss the relationship of mendacity and democracy in light of these quotes.
“I am a firm believer in the people. If given truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.” – Abraham Lincoln
“A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.” – Winston Churchill
“One may sometimes tell a lie, but the grimace that accompanies it tells the truth.” –Nietzsche
“The naked truth is always better than the best dressed lie.” – Ann Landers
“A lie cannot live.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.
“Truth is the only safe ground to stand on.” – Elizabeth Cady Stanton
“Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt
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KAYTEE
Cellist,
Always tell the "TRUTH" …………But leave immediately afterwards.
KT
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Gill
The Watchtower Society IS a lying orgainization. It's hardly surprising that it is full of liars.
My unfortunate experience of them all is that they love twisting everything, including what you say to them.
One thing I loathe with a vengeance is lying......so I suppose that explains my feelings about JWs and the WTBTS!