saved at a Promise Keepers convention

by Princess 47 Replies latest jw friends

  • Princess

    My husband and I have a friend who credits the Lord with every good thing that happens in his life. He is really a nice guy, unmarried, no kids and is now in remission from non Hodgkins lymphoma (again, credit to the lord). I asked him if he ever attended the Promise Keepers and he had of course and proceeded to tell us about how he had taken his buddy and on the last day his buddy was saved. He was so relieved. My first thought was "saved from what?". If Christ died for all men, why did his friend need to be saved at the Promise Keepers convention?

    What do you think about people who credit the lord for every good thing that happens to them? My cousin also had faith in God but she died from cancer. Where was the lord? How do you explain that he is in remission because of his faith but Sharon died? This is something that really bothers me. I have some friends whose son was in a horrible car wreck earlier this year. He and his friend (both attended the same church) were underage and drinking. The friend died instantly and Zach is still in and out of the hospital. His father said the lord saved his son. What about the other boy? He went to church too. They both broke the law, in fact Zach was kicked out of his private Christian school for smoking pot shortly before the accident. Where is the logic in that? The lord saved one and took the other?

    I hear people make these comments all the time. Are they really just not thinking it through?


  • messenger

    There you go again princess, doing that thinking thing. Don't you know yet that thinking destroys Christianity? Better back up, shut down, and go blank, if you want to keep Jesus happy.
    As a JW it is just thinking about what they want with no time to think for you. As a born again you have more time to think but the stupidity factor helps substantially.
    Remember the old saying curiosity killed the cat? Well thinking kills Christianity. So be careful if you do not want to hurt Jesus.

  • Esmeralda

    Hi Princess,

    To me this seems exactly like when JW's say that something good is Jehovah's blessing and something bad is Satan's persecution. Even if they had a direct hand in the outcome of any situation, or it was a situation that no one had control over, they remove themselves from carrying any responsibility as to the outcome of anything that happens in their lives. Convienient!

    My sister did this constantly during my father's hospitalization. If we had a 'good' doctor on a particular day who didn't fuss about the blood issue, it was a "blessing". if we had a day where the nurses were rude or rushed, it was a "test" or "persecution". I was just standing there shaking my head knowing it had everything to do with their schedule rotation and nothing more to do with God than it did the price of tea in China.

    She was convinced that one particular doctor was persecuting her and didn't want to deal with her because of the blood issue and her being a JW. I maintain that he didn't want to talk to her because she would constantly inturrupt the already insanely busy man, never letting him finish a sentence. I shut up when he talked and he liked me just fine. Religion had nothing to do with it. She annoyed the hell out of him because of her rude behaviour!

    I think people like that need to believe that a greater power is controlling everything because they can't handle knowing that they are in charge of making themselves happy.

    An extreme case of this I saw on tv last week really, really disturbed me.

    This was told by a man who had been in the WTC during the disaster there. He was interviewed on the 700 club. I didn't realize it was the700 club so I watched the interview.

    He said that he was running out of the building through the smoke in the stairwells with a group of about a dozen people. They were all crying, and he said that he "started calling on the name of Jesus". Well he told them to do it also, and they started to. He said that they "turned their hearts to jesus" in that moment, or whatever.

    Anyway, when the building fell, he lost hold of the group (they were holding hands).He cried out to Jesus, and he kept going. He saw a short time later the beam of a flashlight, and he grabbed on to the person and made it out alive. Of course, he credited Jesus for saving him. I thought, what about the other people? Where was Jesus for them?

    That is something that a lot of people are struggling with over this WTC issue. They can't reconcile what happened with the Saved by Jesus thing. Why were they saved and others not? Even people who believe are having a hard time grasping that one.

    I think that anyone who needs to give control of their lives to anyone or anything else just don't want to deal with that nasty thing called reality. They're just not into that thinking thing.


  • Dogpatch

    interesting points messenger, but you need a spell check.

  • Dogpatch

    greetings Esmeralda...
    Been to any Star Trek conventions lately?
    love the name AND the picture.

  • Esmeralda

    Hey there Dogz :) Did I tell you about the one I went to on my b-day? Quite a day to remember. If I didn't tell you already let me know, I'll fill you in *lol* Am loving that TNG marathon on TNN. Just loving it LOL!

    Live long and prosper! Or better yet, one of my (own made up) Bajoran Proverbs: "May the Prophets ensure that you never run out of coffee."

    love ya

  • Teirce

    It seems that most thinking Americans know to say "God bless this and that" because by invoking the name of God, they invoke the righteousness that goes along with it, and by associating the nation with God, they osmose the divine authorization that will be required to bring infinite justice, er, enduring peace to the planet.

    It would be logical to disassociate our or any nation from any divinity whatsoever, but then there goes the moral justification to strike back with righteousness, for both east and west. To strike back without God and divinity on one's side would result, and would only be interpreted as, retaliation. Nobody likes that word in this day and age, particularly pop psychology and new age thinkers, who associate retaliation or martial punishment of any form with "stooping to your enemy's level".

  • Englishman

    Tut tut Princess, how could you doubt that all good things come from above?

    Methinks, young lady, you would do well to take Bart Simpson as your role-model, was it not he who taught us to say before meals:

    Rub-a-dub-dub! Thanks for the grub!


    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be....

  • Yerusalyim

    There was once a little bird flying through the cold winter. It began to rain, mixed with freezing rain, and the bird became to heavy to fly. It fell to the ground in a cow pasture. The poor bird lay there shivering, waiting for death. A cow happend to go by and shit on the little bird. At first the bird thought, "Oh, GREAT, that's just what I needed". But then noticed that the shit began to warm him and thaw his wings. His disposition greatly improved the bird cheered and began to chirp and sing. As the bird was gleefully singing he drew the attention of the barn yard cat, who came over, drug the bird fromt the cow shit, and ate him. The Moral; Just because someone shits on you doesn't make him your enemy. Just because some one gets you out of shit doesn't make them your friend, and finally, if you're warm and happy in a pile of shit, keep your mouth SHUT!

    If you would like a theological discussion of the issues you brought up at the top of the thread, I'd be glad to engage you.

    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • Satanus


    Here is an explanation that fits, but you can toss it if you like.

    Being born again can be an actual spiritual experience, but that is all it is. It has nothing to do with the bible, god or jesus. But since it happens in that context at a gathering where people are shouting, singing and praising those entities, naturally the experiencer adopts that theology. Atheists who meditate in a group can have similar experiences without the theology. They could experience a cosmic oneness or higher power without god. Miraculous healings have happened. See books by lawernce leshan.

    The way you describe people randomly escaping or suffering is exactly what a person would see if god had nothing to do with things.

    My opinions anyway


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