Need Some Education On EVOLUTION? Start Here! Perry & Axal take note!

by Seeker4 178 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Apostate Kate
    Apostate Kate
    If I could produce a list of people that number five greater than the list your own of 'scientists' and who disagree with your list, will you accept defeat? Can you see how foolish just presenting this list is?

    I'm afraid you are missing the entire point. I am not presenting information to win anything. I did it to present the fact that we are not "ignorant", and now I may add "foolish" to the list of characture flaws non evolutionists are accused of.

    Like I said before, it is creepy how non evolutionists are treated, very cultlike.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Dave, thanks for that - it makes more sense now!

    I noticed that the article you posted a link to didn't specify what percent of our genetic code is essentially identical to that of pigs. I don't have the data before me, but I believe that most mammals share over 90% of their genetic code.

    I don't think they've done the full map in the right order yet - but the University of Illinois has been given a $10M grant by the US government to undertake it.

    We are related to everything on the planet. Yes, even the plants.

    I'll remember that the next time I'm the wallflower at a party!

  • Asheron
    Asheron

    Here are some numbers for the genetic comparisons:

    Molecular evidence

    ... neutral human DNA sequences are approximately 1.2% divergent (based on substitutions) from those of their nearest genetic relative, the chimpanzee, 1.6% from gorillas, and 6.6% from baboons

  • Asheron
    Asheron

    One of the facisinating pieces to the debate is overturning the age old idea of what determines a species. What are the real differances between species? What defines a species? At the superficial level its, apearance, mating posibilities, and our "learned" visual differetuators. But is that the important differance?

    What needs to happen to make a Dog into a Cat? (Cog..??lol) Well, you need to change some of the Genetic code. If you could do that, than would the resulting creature be a Cat? At the genetic level and the superficial level it would be indistingusible from a Cat therefore it would be a Cat, would it not? Dont WE determine the measuring stick of species determination?

    So if the REAL differance between life forms is the Genetic code. How much of the code would be needed to artificially "evolve" a Chimp into you. About %1.6. Now, dont let the small number fool you. Thats alot of Genetic information, and it would require alot of changes to millions of base pairs to do it. The point is, we UNDERSTAND that it could be done even if the tech is a ways off (and morally tricky).

    Does this prove Evolution by itself? No, but it adds to the evedence.

    My Evolved 2 cents.

  • RAF
    RAF

    I'm sorry Asheron but if it was that simple scientists wouldn't have any probleme to explain the missing link ... they would have historical material to link one to another ... so I'm sorry no evidence here. only hypothesis

    The reason why Darwin's hypothesis got out of credulity is because 2 jockers geologues if I remember (don't remember there name either and I don't care there names anyway) had build false evidences ... and for more than 50 years nobody reliased (that it was a fake) Means that's for 50 years this theorie of kind of evolution have been accepted because of that (A FAKE) ... but now ... well they don't know what to say ... they just continue on the same line but still with no proof.

    Why do people want to believe with no proof (better forget about what it is all about) cause we can live without knowing ... don't we? But when something become the truth (because some people manage to make it appear like the truth well ... you know where it can lead) at some point you can only say ... I've been stupid to believe ... no you just believed a theorywithout proof.

    My wondering 2 cents.

  • Apostate Kate
    Apostate Kate
    I am beginning to think that your Creationist list, now frequently interjected in threads on this subject, are your 'large shield of faith'.

    Forgive me in advance for correcting you but I have only sited this list once before. If I knew where the thread was perhaps I would have simply added the link to it.

    The list is not my shield of faith by any means, yet another slur to say that non evolutionists are not capable of rational thinking thus need some type of facade for validation. Such is not the case with me, respecfully.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Kate,

    The list is not my shield of faith by any means, yet another slur to say that non evolutionists are not capable of rational thinking thus need some type of facade for validation. Such is not the case with me, respecfully

    In what way was my post a 'slur' suggesting that you are not 'capable of rational thinking'? I think you are rushing to judgement here Kate. Read my post again. What I am suggesting is that you are presenting this list in an attempt to impress the readers by weight of numbers.

    As I noted, it is far more effective to present one or two arguments posited by some of these scientists than merely to list their names, a meaningless excercise for reasons that I state above.

    HS

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Evolution has much to recommend it but its used as a hammer to break God which is pretty pointless. Scientists who believe in the facts are not above wild speculation (as if anyone could prove a singularity at the beginning of the universe - its just made up theory - its nice but utterly unprovable) - if you want an example just look in the evolution books especially with regards to proto-humans which they make up a story for and draw pictures to show these early humans living a life that they cannot derive from the evidence. Where there aren't facts the scientists theorise and few question. The story of mankind starts with our earliest records - we make it up beyond that point. The bible just happens to be a very early record and purports to record an even earlier history albiet seen through the eyes of an ancient people.

    What makes the debate so strange is the battleground since belief in God does not arise from the Genesis account of creation nor does it fall with the evidence of evolution. The mechanisms and laws of the universe , especially life does not negate a God no more so than discovering that gravity orders the galaxy and that the sun burns fuel. Its as if evolutionist anti-creationists think that christians believe in a God of magic rather than a God of laws and order. The evidence for God is everywhere if you believe in Him and nowhere if you don't the concept is just that massive - its like saying that the evidence for a big bang is everywhere if that's how it happened or nowhere if it didn't. If God created this place then he did it with dinosaurs, panda thumbs and prehensile tails, if He didn't then they arrived through some other mechanism. In other words evolution and its growing clarification on processes and refinement of its own pillars of belief no more threaten God than having no evidence of evolution would support Him.

  • Apostate Kate
    Apostate Kate
    Read my post again. What I am suggesting is that you are presenting this list in an attempt to impress the readers by weight of numbers.

    As I noted, it is far more effective to present one or two arguments posited by some of these scientists than merely to list their names, a meaningless excercise for reasons that I state above.

    HS

    You are assuming I posted the list to impress when I simply posted it in defence of non evolutionists being called "ignorant."

    Main Entry: ig·no·rant
    Function:adjective
    Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&-)r&nt
    1 a: destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society> ; also:lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b: resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors> 2: UNAWARE , UNINFORMED
    - ig·no·rant·lyadverb
    - ig·no·rant·nessnoun
    synonyms IGNORANT , ILLITERATE , UNLETTERED , UNTUTORED , UNLEARNED mean not having knowledge. IGNORANT may imply a general condition or it may apply to lack of knowledge or awareness of a particular thing <an ignorant fool> <ignorant of nuclear physics>. ILLITERATE applies to either an absolute or a relative inability to read and write <much of the population is still illiterate>. UNLETTERED implies ignorance of the knowledge gained by reading <an allusion meaningless to the unlettered>. UNTUTORED may imply lack of schooling in the arts and ways of civilization <strange monuments built by an untutored people>. UNLEARNED suggests ignorance of advanced subjects <poetry not for academics but for the unlearned masses>.

    So that list proves that non evolutionists are not "ignorant" at all but highly educated rational thinking individuals.

  • Asheron
    Asheron

    RAF

    Sigh...I dont know where to start with your post.

    "I'm sorry Asheron but if it was that simple scientists wouldn't have any probleme to explain the missing link ... they would have historical material to link one to another ... so I'm sorry no evidence here. only hypothesis"

    I think you are refering to what is called a transitional fossil. It is commonly stated by critics of evolution that there are no known transitional fossils. This position is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of what represents a transitional feature. A common creationist argument is that no fossils are found with partially functional features. It is plausible, however, that a complex feature with one function can adapt a wholly different function through evolution. The precursor to, for example, a wing, might originally have only been meant for gliding, trapping flying prey, and/or mating display. Nowadays, wings can still have all of these functions, but they are also used in active flight.

    Although transitional fossils elucidate the evolutionary transition of one life-form to another, they only exemplify snapshots of this process. Due to the special circumstances required for preservation of living beings, only a very small percentage of all life-forms that ever have existed can be expected to be discovered. Thus, the transition itself can only be illustrated and corroborated by transitional fossils, but it will never be known in detail. However, progressing research and discovery managed to fill in several gaps and continues to do so. Critics of evolution, like you, often cite this argument as being a convenient way to explain off the lack of 'snapshot' fossils that show crucial steps between species.

    How many fossils would be enough for you to believe in Evolution? Im guessing no amount. Do you know what fossil evedence is available? Have you looked at them?

    "The reason why Darwin's hypothesis get out of credulity is because 2 jockers geologues if I remember (don't remember there name either and I don't care there names anyway) had build false evidences ... and for more than 50 years nobody reliased (that it was a fake) Means that's for 50 years this theorie of kind of evolution have been accepted because of that (A FAKE) ... but now ... well they don't know what to say ... they just continue on the same line but still with no proof."

    I guess you are referring to the Piltdown man fake http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man

    Am I to believe that you think Evolution is not true because there was a faked scull in 1912? You cant really believe that this was/is the only evedence for evolution do you? With respect, please do some reading on current science and evolution before typing.

    Why do people want to believe with no proof (better forget about what it is all about) cause we can live without knowing ... don't we? But when something become the truth (because some people manage to make it appear like the truth well ... you know where it can lead) at some point you can only say ... I've been stupid to believe ... no you just believed without proof.

    huh??

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