Prayer to the Holy Spirit (page 2)

RAF

When you read the Model of the prayer that Jesus gave usyou can actually find out that it is exactly what most are especting (from God, for / from others and for / from ourselves)

Whatever you feel, expect is a prayer (our spirit talks to God - that's the most sincere prayer whatever your spirit is asking good or bad - in knowing or not "it" being good or bad).

Now of course you can get into a religious way to do it (but God/Christ already knows what's our spirit wants exactly)

To be more specific :
Without really thinking about it Believer and unbeliever are praying since their feelings are involved

bernadette

What is it that all gods, all seemingly separate and isolated things and phenomena exist within? What truly has no beginning and no end? What is it which unites everything and everyone -- no matter what little shard of existence our minds create to which we pray?

I'm tending to agree with what JT said above.

The Gospel of Thomas seems to indicate the same concept.

bernadette

Sad emo

I was taught that you pray to the Father in the name of Jesus through the Holy Spirit - so in a sense, not praying directly to the Holy Spirit.

But I guess another way of looking at it is that since the Spirit proceeds from the Father (sticking with the Orthodox non-filioque statement here!), I am indirectly praying to Him as well as the Father.

Undecided

What can you expect from prayer, except some good feeling in your inner self (whatever that is)? Can you see something actually happen from it?

Ken P.

Narkissos

I suspect it depends how you understand the Trinity doctrine and the sense of "persons" in the first place.

If your view borders on tritheism ("three individuals of the 'God' species" out there) there is indeed no reason why you should not relate to the three in the same way. But I don't see any reason why there should be 3 instead of 2 or 4 or 10,000 either.

If, more classically, your Trinity is understood as one God unfolding in three "positions" or "roles" (hupostaseis or personae) -- above us (the Father), with or before us (the Son) and within us (the Holy Spirit), structuring a symbolic space, then the question of prayer appears in a different light. And then prayer is naturally to the Father through the Son by the Spirit -- according to the overwhelmingly majoritary practice of the Christian church from the NT onward.

One argument sounds particularly weak to me:

26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. - Romans 8:26:27
How can the Holy Spirit make intercession for us if He is not a person?How can he know us if we fail to speak to him? For such close intimacy, we must have an interaction with the Holy Spirit that reflects communication, love, understanding, and a sharing even of our most secret feelings that cannot be uttered (spoken outloud.)

If the problem is that we don't know what we should pray, how would it be solved by changing whom we pray to? Paul's answer is, the Spirit intercedes because it (or he, or she) knows already what we feel and need and can express it (which we cannot) -- or, in Trinitarian speak, because it (or he, or she) is within us and he is God.

Praying tothe Holy Spirit is actually putting it/him/her out of ourselves, and, imo, missing on the deepest "logic" of the Trinitarian dogma.

(A very disinterested remark, fwiw.)

Amazing

Nark,

If the problem is that we don't know what we should pray, how would it be solved by changing whom we pray to? Paul's answer is, the Spirit intercedes because it (or he, or she) knows already what we feel and need and can express it (which we cannot) -- or, in Trinitarian speak, because it (or he, or she) is within us and he is God. ... Praying to the Holy Spirit is actually putting it/him/her out of ourselves, and, imo, missing on the deepest "logic" of the Trinitarian dogma.

Not knowing what to pray for is not necessarily solved by changing whom we pary to. We can not know what to pray for, and pray to the Son or the Father. The BIble teaches that all three dwell within us, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So praying to any one of the three does not put them outside ourselves, nor dioes praying bring them inside. Rather, asking them to dwell within us is what brings them into our lives, and into our souls. As the Holy Spirit dwells within us, he can hear us when we are distressed, but not sure what to pray for. We can tell him that we are not knowing what to pray for, and he can then read our hearts and know what we need, and then plead to the Father on our behalf.

As for "it, him, or her" ... the Father is neither male nor female, and neither is the Son. They are all spirits, and thus do not share human sexuality. The convention of the Father is the role that he plays with respect to his creatures. The Son plays the role of a son, both with the Father, and in his relationship to humanity. The Holy Spirit does not play any such role, and so the Bible never speaks of him in that respect ... though in Greek grammar he is referred to both as "he" and as "it" which either are proper terms for him.

The Trinity is not really discussed in this presentation ... but I guess could be implied. However, your suggestions does not violate the concept of the Trinity. Given again that the Father and the Son also dwell within us, then is praying to someone who dwells with you puts them outside yourself ... what does that mean? Nothing, really.

Jim Whitney

mouthy

which is considered yelling in Internet talk.)

Excuse me .I am sorry I didnt realise that... I have learned a lesson. But I realise you were speaking on the HOLY SPIRIT.But you were the one that added or to ever else we pray to.or something like that. Please forgive me...I know what you believe. & I have quite a few who try to push that on me ....That I should pray to another PLUS Father, Son, & Holy Spirit...

JamesThomas

The Gospel of Thomas seems to indicate the same concept.

Bernadette, I suggest that if you sincerely feel a sense of agreement that our true Source is genuinely limitless and boundless, that you then not be satisfied with it being a "concept". Rather, earnestly seek within your most immediate and intimate sense of being and existing. Look past the mind and all it's words, beliefs and concepts, and discover what is wondrously and undeniably Real.

Realize what you really are.

j

bluesapphire

Mouthy, if you can ask a friend who is a sinner on earth to intercede for you and pray for you, then why on earth couldn't you do the same with those who have already gone to their glory and are with god? the saints are the glorified members of christ's church. praying to them is no different than asking a close friend to pray for you. amazing, the communion of saints is the church's most beautiful doctrine. i relate more to those who have lived on this earth and yet sit with God now than to any other Christian teaching. i lean strongly toward agnosticism myself. but for some reason this teaching burns within me still.

bernadette

JT

Look past the mind and all it's words, beliefs and concepts, and discover what is wondrously and undeniably Real.

I should have said pointers instead of concepts. . I have to say its not easy though because one's mind keeps wanting to pull one back into its shenanigans

Amazing,

What you said about the Father Son and holy Spirit dwelling in us seems to suggest to me that we are all talking about the same source but in putting words and names to that source we are all becoming divided.

I often have to remind myself to stop thinking about it but to shift to a heart awareness stance, then I find that praying in words isn't necessary. I'm going to stick with this way of life as it is very peaceful.

bernadette

Prayer to the Holy Spirit

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