Is it brainwashing? (page 2)

thetrueone

The whole organizational structure of the WTS is based on fear, fear for power, fear for control and fear for profit.

If an organization instructs it's followers how to think what to think and how to act on those instructions, without a chance to put

forth any debate or analysis of the information, without paying a personal penalty, well yes. For example think about the book studies

and watchtower studies, when the WTS. supplies the questions on the information they are putting forth, one could very well consider

this a form of brainwashing or mind manipulation. This is done in allot of religions because without thought control you can not manintain the

power that you have obtained. A psycosis of fear can be placed in the minds of the people, by the information and therefore maintain

support for organization.........food for thought ! also keeps the presses running and the money flowing in.

I'm gonna go with you on this jignat because I tend to think of brainwashing in terms of prisoners of war and physical torture and such like. Whereas mind control inmho more accurately describes WTBTS tactics.

As to the damaging effects - soft tissue damage is also an insightful analogy as it draws attention to how the damage done can be seen as very extensive, prolonged and painful.

jgnat

Yes, AK-Jeff, it is all good. I think if we look past the point we disagree on, we are both deeply disturbed at the damage the society inflicts on it's members. I posted out of passion for the subject, not in an attempt to "bring you out", so to speak.

I agree that Jehovah's Witness children are socially stunted; not just because they must abstain from most social events with "worldly" people, but because they must NEVER question their parent's faith. I think an adult MUST question their doctrinal foundations to be completely mature. I remember discussing this delayed maturity with Onacruse, which he felt he went through as well.

Rooster

Wow good stuff jgnat.

Mysterious

Yes calling JWs brainwashed may have very little effect on the Jw themselves, however, labels do have a place in describing the experience to those who have not gone through it themselves. I think though that mind control more accurately describes my own experiences. It was like someone had compressed my mental capacity like a spring, controlling it if you will, and now that I am free I can think for myself. I do not feel like I was wiped clean..but rather that I was truly out of touch with myself.

RAF

... JGNAT : yep Mind control comes first it uses brainwashing
'Cause Mind control don't only use brainwashing (but also fear of retaliation or any personal or global perk/benefit and so on ...)

Madame Quixote

AK-Jeff said:"I refuse to allow a nice soft petal word to conceal the agony that I felt and the years of my life that were stolen by that organization."

That's all there is to it for me, too. I said it recently, in a million words or less, and I'll say it again: I have no interest in making nice, pretty words that don't express the pain, sorrow, and rage of being born and raised in the land of Jehobo.

And "rape of mind" is also an appropriate term, Jeff, that describes well what being "born and raised" a Jehovah's Witness incurs for most children because the basic motto of the JW org is: "don't think, don't act, don't feel and don't be."

Stealth453

"People say we are brain washed. That's good! Our brains are washed clean and theirs are dirty!" And everybody would laugh. That's how it was framed and being called "brainwashed" had no affect on us but to make us laugh.

A perfect example of mind-control.

IsaacJS2

I agree with what you said about the term "brainwashing." It tends to conjure up images of people strapped to a table and having bright lights flashed in their faces, like a bad scifi/spy movie. Just as you said, it makes us sound like conspiracy nuts. And even if you throw it a current follower of the WT as an insult, it doesn't really bother them anyway. In fact, whenever we critics go too far, it just makes us easier to shrug off. So if we're going to criticize, then I think we should be very measured in how we do it.

Some of the posts here have been helpful to me, though. I've been working on an essay of sorts that describes my reasons for prefuring atheism to the WTS or other religions. I was finally spurred to do this by harrassing WT in-laws. I just wanted to have a single, cohesive argument backing me up in some form. These posts may help me narrow down the "why the Society is bad" part quite a big. (It was 45 pages long, and I want to tighten it up a lot)

Thanks for the input from everyone!

IsaacJ

AllTimeJeff

Personally, I can't see how calling someone "brainwashed" to their face can help them. It's insulting. It's taking the high road. It's like telling someone: "I'll pray for you.". It's condescending and insulting! That's an excellent way to loose rapport.

Rather than use labels, why not just state the facts and let the facts stand for themselves?

This is somewhat late, but I couldn't agree more with you Gary. Platitudes by angry ex JW, no matter how much pain they may be in or how sincere they are, doesn't further the cause of exposing JW's very much.

Everything must be examined case by case, one point at a time. I was called brainwashed more then once at the door, and guess what? I tuned them out, feeling mad and insulted. If someone had the intelligence and patience to reason with me on points, it would have been much better.....

Truthfully, most people don't care if JW's are brainwashed or not..... So the ones who yell it look as crazy at times as the cult they are calling out. And again, I think this backs up a point I have observed: You can't call a group a cult very easily when so many, most even, know or has JW friends at work, school etc... It's not that JW aren't a cult, its the word association most people have with cult.... Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, etc. You have to handle JW differently...

Is it brainwashing?