by lovelylil 82 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Kid A,
Thanks for bringing that point to my attention. I've since gone back and edited my answer. A better response would have been that I really don't know because I cannot speak for God on that issue. Which is true, and as you know, I have always said I simply do not have all the answers. And I don't believe anyone today that does, whether we are religious or non-religious. All we can do is give our own personal views, knowing that sometimes, this will just not be enough for everyone. Lilly
kid-A,
My point exactly, more succinctly stated.
Lovelylil,
Your reply leads to another, perhaps more fundamental question:
How can God expect us to worship him, when he either (A) designed us to be incapable of understanding him, or (B) purposely withholds important information from us?
I.e., you can't speak for God - of course that is true. But God isn't speaking for himself either - at least not to the countless millions of persons who have never had a subjective "spiritual experience" (for lack of a better term) as yours.
Hi Sir,
I know you don't accept this answer but I do feel it comes down to free will. Humans are endowed with the capacity to love, hate, do good or evil. God did not limit us. While I don't know the mind of God fully, I do know he wants us (mankind) to obey him because we love him, because in the future he wants all of mankind to have a personal relationship with him. One where he loves us, and we have the capacity to love him back. IF he had made us without the capacity for evil, we would also not be able to love. As love is the other end of our emotional spectrum. God did not want robots but real emotionally feeling people.
In addition to what I state above, there are other matters involved and some of those I already touched on in previous posts.
I think the big issue people have with God is that they do not understand fully WHY it is taking him so long, at least in their eyes to let his plan known to mankind? But he actually has made his plan known both by his word, by sending his Son, and by his Son appointing others as ambassadors on earth to teach these things to mankind. Unfortunatly, many do not want to accept this and are awaiting God to reveal himself directly to them.
He will someday, but only in his time. Lilly
sir,
Hi, I posted before I saw your last questions.
The answers are 1. God did give humans the ability to understand him to the best of our capacity as humans 2. He communicates to us thru his word, through all of creation, thru his Holy Spirit and by using people who believe in him and love him to teach others about him. But, if you do not accept that he really exists, that he is the creator, that he can use his spirit to influence people, or that he has people on earth who do know and understand him - as apposed to just dellusional, misguided ones, then how do you suppose God can help you "see" he is real? For these ARE the ways God is revealing himself to us (mankind) at this time, but you still do not accept it. Lilly
Sir, Lil:
I've enjoyed your posts. God knew everything that is happeningwould happen--- not because its fixed somehow, but it's like a chess game where a player can see 10 or 12 moves down the board, eliciting from his opponents the moves HE KNOWS his opponent will make, ultimately bringing his opponent to checkmate.
I don't understand all of it, but I know that if God is the Creator, than he can do anything he well pleases and all the rest of his creation are helpless to stop Him. What I do not like, because I cannot understand it, is why He can't be held responsible for any it? He made everything, including good and evil ('cause either he is the creator or he isn't, right?), so why do the rest of us, through NO FAULT of our own pay the consequences for something WE DID NOT DO?
It's a rhetorical question. It may be an unanswerable question. And I do beleive in GOD because I have to for my own sanity. I just don't understand Him sometimes. And one of the reasons is He has made Himself difficult to understand.
Ahh, my head hurts!
Zack----
Lovelylil,
Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding what you've said in your previous 2 posts:
While I don't know the mind of God fully
God did give humans the ability to fully understand him
So, you have the ability, but just aren't using it? ???
And I don't understand this:
But, if you do not accept that he really exists, that he is the creator, that he can use his spirit to influence people, or that he has people on earth who do know and understand him - as apposed to just dellusional, misguided ones, then how do you suppose God can help you "see" he is real?
Let me restate this, to make sure I understand:
Are you saying that I have to "accept" that God exists, despite the logical inconsistencies that I (and others) have pointed out, and only then, will he reveal himself?
I don't get it - God gives man logical, rational thinking ability, enabling him to determine that which is real vs. that which is not, that which is true vs. that which is not - but then expects us to push that to one side and just "accept" him as real, before he starts giving us evidence?
What's the point of that?
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I'm not sure what.
Sir,
Obviously I made a typo by adding "fully". God gives us the ability to understand him in the capacity that we can as humans. What things do we have to understand him, his creation, his word, his people. IF you don't believe in a God, this is all moot. Can we understand everything that goes on in his "mind" No, and we never will because we are not even on his level. He being so much higher than we.
I think we can go on forever debating this issue and it will keep leading into more questions. But really, we need to put it to rest sometime and I am getting dizzy from typing today. I'm not being flip, I have a neurological problem and can only stare at the computer for so long or I do get dizzy.
Amazing Jim wrote a really good article he posted about God. I forget the title of it. But it is in the beliefs section, he posted it today. I think it may help you to better "see" things from our "believers" point of view. Have a great afternoon, Lilly
Lilly,
That's fine, we can pick it up tomorrow, if you are so inclined. I'd be curious to see your responce to my 2nd set of questions in my previous post.
I did read Amazing's post - very intresting - but once again, he had his own subjective "spiritual experience" - something I still lack.
"I don't get it - God gives man logical, rational thinking ability, enabling him to determine that which is real vs. that which is not, that which is true vs. that which is not - but then expects us to push that to one side and just "accept" him as real, before he starts giving us evidence?"
Q What's the point of that?
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but I'm not sure what.
A...it's called humility...
