Floyd Kite's "Enduring the Tests Within God's Organization" (1980) (page 2)

jinjam

(The number one test is this -- and if you can use this in helping someone else or teaching someone else, great. The number one test is this: will I be loyal to the organization God is using in spite of the people that are in it? That’s a big test. It’s been a big test in nineteen hundred years in the Christian congregation and a tremendously large test in modern times in God’s organization. How will I respond to the people inside of God’s organization? Will I be loyal to it? And you do have to admit that now you’re associated with the congregation there are many strange people in the congregation, and you’ve noticed that, right? And sometimes you begin wonder how did they get in? How do they stay in?! And yet we stand shoulder to shoulder like the loving encouragement we received through the book of Philippians this past week. Paul said, “Standing with one spirit shoulder to shoulder for the sake of the good news.” And yet if you look too closely at people, you can become very disappointed in your congregation. Even if you move to some other congregation, you’ll find the same thing. And you will actually begin to wonder, “Can these people really be God’s people?”)

nothing but brotherly love, isn't it wonderful! now all you have to do is turn on each other and become paranoid!

LongHairGal

Years ago I had a scratchy, poor quality copy of this talk on tape.

While the talk is good and inspiring, I am afraid the point is moot since I do not accept or believe most of what the religion teaches. Sorry, but I can never go back and feel the same way again!

Those days are gone!

LHG

proplog2

The presumption is that "this is God's organization - no matter what".

My problem is that we are supposed to look to God for a higher guidance. But all you see is the usual trial and error groping for ideas and explanations.

If God can put things in the minds of the "ten kings" to give their authority to the wild beast why can't he insert the "right" thoughts into the brains of the JW leaders - the Holy Governing Body.

The best argument against the idea of ESP is that NONE of these people are right ALL of the time. You have to use the same statistical methods you use to investigate all of the soft sciences. The fact that JW's survive just says they did enough of the right things and they were exploiting a niche that was especially hot during the immediate post WWII period.

The JW organization doesn't even show evidence of ordinary creativity. Russell was very creative. Even Rutheford had a sense of public relations and knew how to create buzz. But the organization got swallowed up in production issues - hours, magazines, books, new branches. The elder arrangement was a belated attempt at participative management. They have resorted to Multilevel marketing type of motivation - if you show you are productive you get special recognition through invitations to seminars etc.

The same thing is seen in the trial and error/success process that is called "natural" selection. All sorts of vestigial organs, left over spare parts that are crudely adapted to whatever situation was advantageous for a period of time.

The organization of JW's (actually all organizations) is proof of evolution.

They always reply "well it's an organization of imperfect men". BUT - isn't God able to guide these imperfect men so they don't keep walking into their own poop?

lovelylil

Leolaia,

Thanks for posting that. But I got half way through, felt like I was gonna barf and quit! I really cannot digest the WT spiritual junk food anymore. Now that my stomache has feasted on fine dining, I can't eat anything else. Lilly

willyloman

I remember this talk very well. I can't be sure if I heard it live, or just had a copy of it on tape, or both. But I played the tape over and over and had parts of this memorized at one time.

Kite is an orator of extraordinary skill. He delivers the message in a way that has you hanging on every word. he's intelligent and humorous and his enthusiasm is infectious. Incidentally, he was the guy chosen to deliver the manuscript talk at the dist. conv. in San Diego a few years back, the infamous: Beware of the Voice of a Stranger. I was surprised then to see him sill alive, he is in his late 70s or early 80s now.

As I recall, I LOVED this talk in 1980. It seemed to me, at the time, that he "nailed" it. Looking back, I realize he was an elitist and his talk had the effect of dividing and separating the dubs into two classes. Thus, his classic line, "Half of us are here to test the other half" became a dub cliche in the '80s. I heard it repeated often from the platform. Ironically, about 3/4 of the congo would nod in approval, which suggests they all thought the reference was to "the other half," i.e., those who were "not us."

I look back now and am surprised such a talk would be approved, if in fact it was. It exposes a soft underbelly, and a seamy side of dub life, particulary at Bethel, the alleged "House of God," and flies in the face of all the Society's pronouoncements about how special dubs are, what with being guided by the Sovereign of the Universe is all matters large and small.

In retrospect, this was another of those signposts that I should have recognized. But i was obviously emotionally compromised and "all in" at the time. So, instead, I viewed this talk as further proof that God had his eye on things and that "in due time" he'd take care of matters.

nd yet if you look too closely at people, you can become very disappointed in your congregation. Even if you move to some other congregation, you’ll find the same thing. And you will actually begin to wonder, “Can these people really be God’s people?”

I see clearly now that the answer to that last question is: No, they can't really be God's people, or they'd reflect his qualities.

I want you to think about the most advanced Witness in your congregation. Pick him out in your mind, pick her out, whichever one it is. Got it? The most advanced Witness in your congregation. Got it? Let me tell you something. Even that most advanced Witness has got a full thousand years to go. You see? So do you and so do I. And so during the thousand years, we’ll work on all the scars and disfigurements that have been connected with our personalities. And then by the end of the thousand years, hopefully Jehovah willing, we’ll be full-blown Christian personalities.

Nice bunch of weasel words there. Now I get it; he put the accountability so far into the future that they could never be called on it. This comment totally overlooks the fact that, throughout the earth, there were people (Mother Theresa comes to mind) who already were "full-blown Chrisitan personalities." No thousand year wait for them! But, of course, they were never mentioned, their fatal flaw being their inability to recognize dubs as God's chosen people. And how about that reference to "the most advanced Witness"? Who'd that be? The speaker, of course, and the "prominent ones." The words of the Pharissees. You almost get the sense of a meeting of SS officers in Nazi Germany, speaking disparagingly of the rank and file peasant soldiers who lacked the "calling' of these elite fighters.

Kite's words were arrogant and haughty and extremely divisive, but we lapped it up like good little sheep. I'm ashamed of having been so blind, but I thank God that now, Brother Kite, yes, I do see.

grissom6471

This is the most awesome talk ever because it shows how stupid and shallow those who leave the faith are. People who leave are followers of men, but the ones who stay in the faith are followers of Jesus.

mavie

This is the most awesome talk ever because it shows how stupid and shallow those who leave the faith are. People who leave are followers of men, but the ones who stay in the faith are followers of Jesus.

O, really? Do you follow the Governing Body?

Also, I'm trying to recall which man I follow right now.....hmm...let me see...which man/group of men do I regard as my leader....hmm.....I'll have to get back to you on that one.

Midget-Sasquatch

They always special plead how the WTS is made up of imperfect men. Well, so is every other organization on the planet. So what distinguishes them as being better? Oh yeah, the troof they peddle.

I love how he tried to explain away the communist infiltration as something God allowed to test his followers. It makes me feel good. My appointment as a minsterial servant may very well have been by holy spirit then....I was God's pan helping sift out the gold nuggets from the soil.

Honestly, I'm so tired of their harping on and on about the "bad fruit" of other groups, but always excusing their own. If we were to compare the "good fruit" of the WTS with some of those other groups, most people would be underwhelmed with the pitifully small altruism shown by the GB and the WTS.

plmkrzy

It's all good except:

The number one test is this -- and if you can use this in helping someone else or teaching someone else, great. The number one test is this: will I be loyal to the organization God is using in spite of the people that are in it?

Kite was probably the best speaker the "org" ever had and the only one I remember. The others put me too sleep.

plmkrzy

grissom: This is the most awesome talk ever because it shows how stupid and shallow those who leave the faith are. People who leave are followers of men, but the ones who stay in the faith are followers of Jesus. but the ones who stay in the faith are followers of ~~Jesus~~ The organization.

Floyd Kite's "Enduring the Tests Within God's Organization" (1980)

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