Creator Book - Periodic Table - Part 1

by Amazing 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    I believe in God ... but not because of any Watchtower teaching. It is actually fun to look back and see how they applied very poor logic and nonsense to try and prove their point. Today, the (c) 1998 Watchtower book, "Is There a Creator Who Cares About You" was placed with me at the door. I did not know this book existed. I will make a series of posts on this book as I go through it. But, here is an opening sample:

    On Page 27 the Watchtower Society has the "Periodic Table of the Elements" displayed. Then, they make this interesting observation on page 26, paragraphs 4 and 5:

    4 "When the elements are arranged in the rows and columns of the periodic table, a remarkable relationship is seen between elements that share a column. For example, in the last column are located helium (No. 2), neon (No. 10), argon (No. 18), krypton (No. 36), xenon (No. 54), and radon (No. 86). These are gases that glow brightly when an electric discharge passes through them, and they are used in some light bulbs. Also, they do not react easily with various elements, as do some other gases. ... 5 Yes the universe - even down to its atomic particles - reveals astonishing harmony and order. ... "

    The periodic table is NOT a divine product of order and harmony. It is a HUMAN arranged table that groups the elements by atomic weight and numbers as assigned and measured by humans. It is arranged by humans for ease of human use and reference. If the elements are actually placed in there natural order, there is no particular harmony or design other than a difference in numbers of neutrons, protons, and electrons. This is why the table looks a little goofy in its geometric layout.

    Further, the periodic table that the Society used is the simplistic model most often used in grade school and high school test books. When one gets into college and then research in the working world, then one sees the full periodic table with all of the varient isotopes and nuclides. In order to make some sense of it, it has to be rearranged again by humans to force it to be an easy reference.

    For example, one can find variously arranged periodic tables rearranged for various purposes, some oderly and some not:

    1. Reordered Table:http://www.wpbschoolhouse.btinternet.co.uk/page04/4_71atom.htm

    2. This shows elements the Society left off:http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/periodic-table/isot.html

    3. Periodic Chart of the Nuclides:http://www.nndc.bnl.gov/chart/reZoom.jsp?newZoom=1 (Scroll over these to find specific isotopes of each element)

    4. Periodic Chart of the Nuclides:http://wwwndc.tokai-sc.jaea.go.jp/CN04/index.html (Another scroll over example of the full periodic table)

    If one takes an honest look at the full periodic table, including all isotopes and nuclides, then one discovers that there is really little order and harmony. Again, the Society uses false logic in an attempt to make God appear orderly and organized, when the facts show otherwise. The full table under the chart of the Nuclides is very hard to order, as one can see from the strained attempt that various sources use. It is humans who force the appearance of order so we can more easily recall and undertand the complex and chaotic universe we observe and dwell in.

    Jim Whitney Toasting you with the element - Alcohol

    PS: For the chemical impaired, alcohol is not an element, but a compound. But to a drinker, it is elementary.

  • Woodsman
    Woodsman

    Jim,

    Thanks again for another informative and insightful post. I have no problem with a chaotic God and have never understood the emphasis the WTS placed on God being orderly.

    The God the WTS claims exists doesn't need them to defend him and as you have shown he would do better if they didn't try to.

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    God being orderly provides a nice context for all their damn rules.

    For the JWs God should BE AN orderly ...to take care of all those nutcases.

    :P

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    But God has been

    1 a builder

    2 a geometer,

    3 mathematician

    4 Physicist

    5 engineer

    6 computer scientist.

    Whenever a new science emerges, somebody claims that the human discipline defines their god.

    HB

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Jim: Hey there!

    then one discovers that there is really little order and harmony...The full table under the chart of the Nuclides is very hard to order, as one can see from the strained attempt that various sources use.

    That was something that dismayed me when I first saw the expanded nuclide chart...I thought for sure that there would be some pattern to the half-lives of isotopes as they "moved" farther away from the parent nuclide (to show decreased stability), but no such luck. And then there are the as yet undiscovered, but fascinatingly logical "magic" nuclides (I think 124 and 168 are the numbers??).

    Again, the Society uses false logic in an attempt to make God appear orderly and organized, when the facts show otherwise...

    And yet, when confronted with a demonstrably "orderly" and "organized" geological explanation for the Ice Ages (versus e.g. the Annular Theory proposed by Vail), the WTS has a conniption fit.

    It is humans who force the appearance of order so we can more easily recall and undertand the complex and chaotic universe we observe and dwell in.

    Hawkings proposed a quite interesting quantum-mechanical explanation for the whole thing, which requires the "disorder" we see in the universe. Well, Heisenberg also had a thing or two to say about it, as well as Dirac, and notwithstanding Einstein...but then who's keeping score? LOL

    Craig

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    The periodic table exists because scientists started noticing that certain elements behaved in similar ways. Eventuall they found out that it was because of how the subatomic elements were arranged. That paragraph is like saying "if we put all the numbers in order we notice that each number is one greater than the number before it."

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586
    Further, the periodic table that the Society used is the simplistic model most often used in grade school and high school test books. When one gets into college and then research in the working world, then one sees the full periodic table with all of the varient isotopes and nuclides. In order to make some sense of it, it has to be rearranged again by humans to force it to be an easy reference.

    It has to be simple. Not too many members went past High School, after all!

  • shadowofbathory
    shadowofbathory

    gday jim

    thanks for your post, nothing new but interesting non the less

    i agree that empirical and statistical distillates of scientific thought and experiments leads to a strong conclusion that god uses a good measure of programed disorder in his creation

    but without going into chaos theory here do you not agree that there is truely no thing as absolute disorder? this is not justification of an orderly god , no im with you on this in part, but what thing exists that we can say is truely random.

    even the number sequence for pi is not!

    it just seems so because we cant figure out the formula yet

  • Midget-Sasquatch
    Midget-Sasquatch

    Hi Amazing,

    I agree with you that the periodic table, as we have it, was deliberately layed out to bring out patterns, and that these simplified groupings are a human construct. The society does tend to exagerate orderliness in nature as evidence for a designer god.

    I do want to let other readers realize though that the periodic table as we have it does bring out at least one genuine underlying pattern seen in the natural elements. That elements with identical electron configurations in their outermost shell will behave very similarly/almost identically in their chemical reactions. It was this similarity of chemical behaviour among elements and a seeming periodicity associated with atomic number that gave rise to the idea of setting up a table. (Again its more correct to look at the electron configurations). Elements are placed in the same groups to reflect that underlying natural pattern. But again that doesn't mean a god designed it that way.

    I look forward to other thoughts you have on that book. Its less fun to take apart than the earlier book Life How did it Get Here? but there's still ample material to dissect.Later.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    hi jim,

    great write up if i may say so! you've got good style.

    the creator book was actually the book that led me to begin questioning things about the borg. what a pile of crap that book is.

    you may find this link interesting too:

    http://talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html

    hi shadow,

    even the number sequence for pi is not!

    it just seems so because we cant figure out the formula yet

    are you sure about this?

    mathematicians are still calculating the decimal places. just because we have not found a pattern in the decimal places does not mean that one day we will. in addition, this does not mean that they do not understand pi. how do you think they generate pi in the first place? pi might actually be truly random in the end. not that it matters of course. a patternless pi doesn't have philosophical implications that i am aware of. it's just a very unique number.

    peace out bro,

    tetra

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