Governing Body; Old/New Light

Mikeus

I know that sometime, somewhere the GB has claimed to be "Jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels. Could someone please provide me with some quotes?

I'm speaking with a JW right now who says they don't care if the GB has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light". They only care about what they say now. What's the best way to get around this? Any WT publication quotes on this topic would be extremely helpful as well. Thanks!

SirNose586

Your friend is a "Captive of a Concept."

It doesn't matter how much you can prove that there's no such thing as "old light" or "past truths," you're not going to get very far unless you understand how your friend feels about the WTS.

For 5 bucks you can download "Captives of a Concept," which will help you get some sort of tactic for talking to your friend. You can buy the .pdf here.

Gopher

As far as their claim to be the channel of communication for Jehovah, see this exchange which is documented in the Brooklyn / Kings County court records. The Watchtower was involved in a lawsuit in 1940, and Fred Franz (the then-future president of the Society) was being questioned.

LAWYER: Who subsequently became the Editor of the magazine, the main editor of the 'Watch Tower' magazine?
F.FRANZ: In 1931, October 15th, as I recall, the 'Watch Tower' discontinued publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page.
THE COURT: He asked you who became the editor.
F.FRANZ: And it said..
THE COURT: Who became the editor?
LAWYER: Who became the editor when this was discontinued?
F.FRANZ: Jehovah God.
{NEW YORK KING'S COUNTY CLERKS'S COURT RECORD 1940 vol II 795}

He gave similar testimony in a 1943 lawsuit. The link is in http://www.freeminds.org/history/part3.htm

Of course, since a JW would probably not look at the Freeminds website, he might reject this information without hesitation. However, the court record shows that the WTS leadership has stated that Jehovah speaks through their literature!!!

Alwayshere

Don't know if this will help but the Watchtower, May15,1930 said "How do we know if one's a true or false prophet? True prophet will not be sounding forth man made guesses, either his own or others." Also the Watchtower June1, 1965 stated "Jehovah appoints GB members. Organization is under the direction of Jehovah himself." You might tell him the July1, 1973 Watchtower stated "Would your conscience permit you to share in producing weaponry? Then tell him to go to "search" and type "Watchtower Society and Warfare Tech." This shows the Watchtower Society owns 50% of a company that makes War weapons.

AuldSoul

Best way to get around it is to:

(1) Read the paragraph of verses containing Proverbs 4:18 and ask whether this is talking about doctrine at all.

(2) Read Galatians 1:6-9 and ask whether this allows for the possibility of "new" light, or whether people claiming to bring new light should be accursed.

Hope that helps.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Star Moore

Mike:

Thing is this: Russell came up with the base for the WT teachings... and alot of it was great, especially when you consider how the Catholic had been teaching. But, I would say, to throw the burden of proof on your friend and ask this?

Since Charles Russell died, what new teaching or 'light' have the governing body taught that has been good and would be considered new light.... ?

The answer is none, that a person could say came from the holy spirit as being enlightened teaching..

Since I dropped out a year and a few months ago.. I have actually been able to discern new things.. with the help of the holy spirit..Something the WT hasn't done in 90 years.

fullofdoubtnow

Hi Mikeus,

You might refer your friend to the Quotes site, on this link:

http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/home.html

It consists of quotes from genuine watchtower publications. I suggest you look at the flip flops to see how many times they have changed a doctrine, then changed it back to what it was before, then later changed it again, for example this one, referring to who is the Lord as mentioned in Romans 10:12 - 16:

Who is The 'Lord' as mentioned in Romans 10:12-16

1903 - 'Lord' refers to Jesus.
1940 - 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.
1978 - 'Lord' refers to Jesus.
1980 - 'Lord' refers to Jehovah.

You would think that an organisation with god's backing would get THAT right the first time, would you not? There is also a section on new light doctrine, and much, much more. I hope it helps

Linda

Mikeus

Thanks for the help everyone! This information is definitely helpful. Thanks again!

Morocco

*** Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 ***
They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them

People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"

These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record.

*** Our Kingdom Ministry September 2002***
5 God's Appointed Channel: Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed. This spiritual food is available only through the theocratic organization. We should always look to God's appointed channel for reliable information, not to a network of Internet users. — Matt.24:45.

***Watchtower 1964 May 1 - Building a Firm Foundation in Christ***
8 ... It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people,...

***Watchtower 2/15/1960 - Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
2 ...The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. ...

***Watchtower 1/15/1959 - Down with the Old—Up with the New!***
Jehovah’s witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. All the preaching and all the Bible educational work that they have done till now in 175 countries and islands of the sea they confess has been, not by help of a military army, nor by human power, but by God’s spirit, his invisible active force. (Zech. 4:6, AV) It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths. It has evidently been because he commissioned them to be over the nations and over the kingdoms

***Watchtower 6/15/1957 - Overseers of Jehovah’s People***
7a Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor.
7b It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.

Mikeus

Yessss thanks Morocco that's exactly what I was looking for.

Governing Body; Old/New Light

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