Further incite on Dawkin's The God Delusion

by Abandoned 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • skyking
    skyking

    First off I liked his book. I do not believe the bible at all. It is just a book.

    He jumps to conclusions that have not yet been proven one way or the other yet the only difference he is willing to admit they are just ideas that make sense at this time. So he admits with science we need to investigate the known facts and if we find out if it is wrong then change. He forgets then to admit it is just a theory. A theory is an idea not yet proven.

    Yet he slams every religionist as stupid closed minded towards facts. He is blinded against any religion as much as the religionist are towards him. No give and his part at all.

    Same arrogance I see in religionist I see in Dawkins.

    The only thing I think like Dawkins does. Good Book

  • Terry
    Terry
    He jumps to conclusions that have not yet been proven one way or the other yet the only difference he is willing to admit they are just ideas that make sense at this time. So he admits with science we need to investigate the known facts and if we find out if it is wrong then change. He forgets then to admit it is just a theory. A theory is an idea not yet proven.

    Not quite!

    The Scientific Method is different.

    All the successfull breakthroughs in medicine, physics, technology, etc. are the direct result of the Scientific Method

    which employs "theory".

    The difference in terminology, apparently, is not well known among the general population.

    To Joe Sixpack, a "Theory" is only a GUESS.

    The Scientific Theory is a result and not a starting point. It is never retired to the category of "Doctrine: do not tamper". A piece of Scientific Theory is always subject to revision because it must stand face to face with reality and make an accounting for itself. This is where PREDICTION comes in. A theory must contain a prediction. It is usually in the form of :

    IF X; then: Y.

    This is said to test the theory by Falsifiability.

    You might say that the Jehovah's Witness series of Watchtower Articles contained the theory of Armageddon and predicted that:

    IF X (all these signs and wonders occur) then: Y (the end of 6,000 years of man's existence and Armageddon).

    The passing of 1975 falsified the accuracy of the JW understanding and "proved" the Faithful and Discreet Slave does not have direction by Jesus Christ and neither does it dispense "food at the proper time".

    But, the WTS didn't have a Scientific basis! It was crackpot bullshit.

    A true scientific THEORY has to turn its data over daily to the auditor and show its receipts, so to speak.

    In science you cannot consider the lack of data. You must consider the data. In religion you consider the lack of proof and call it Faith.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    OK, can anyone tell me where they hid all the half evolved animals

    hi acadian,

    "half evolved" implies that there is such a thing as "fully evolved", which is not the case. the animals, including ourselves, that we see around us today, are not a pinnacle of development. they are just the result of many mutations over millions of years.

    in other words, if you would like to find something that is half evolved, you are not going to find it, because that is not how *biology* works.

    all animals, in the entire history of the world, every single one, has been "fully" evolved, if that is the term you want to use. but it is a misleading term.

    tetra

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    skyking,

    A theory is an idea not yet proven.

    a hypothesis is a guess that needs to be proven either way.

    a theory is something else. a theory is a group of hypotheses who have stood the test of time, peer review, and evidence. evolution is a theory, like gravity is a law. almost the same dif.

    wikipedia explains further:

    Scientific laws are similar to scientific theories in that they are principles which can be used to predict the behavior of the natural world. Both scientific laws and scientific theories are typically well-supported by observations and/or experimental evidence. Usually scientific laws refer to rules for how nature will behave under certain conditions. [3] Scientific theories are more overarching explanations of how nature works and why it exhibits certain characteristics.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory#Scientific_laws

    i hope this clears things up for you.

    peace,

    tetra

  • skyking
    skyking

    I am not unclear on any of this. Dawkins is closed minded and closed minded people only hear what they want. Like for example Dawkins in his book talks about why religion evolved/ He never even considered that we might be in the process of proving it is of no value to humans showing that religion is harmful. So some day down the road we will evolve to the point religion is not needed at all.

    another Ex; in his book he says any person that has an experience such as hearing voices in a room and that person jumps to the conculsion the supernatural did it is somehow dumb. How can he make the claim the person has deceived his mind. There are many variables that come into play but Hawkins dismisses any personal accounts as mind play. Not very scientific he does not know if life takes different forms maybe we share this world with other life forms. Somethings in this world have yet to be discovered, look at life that lives in solid rocks only a few years ago we did not know this. Life that lives on the bottom of the ocean around volcanic vents. He demises things he does not understand into a reality that makes sense to him, he is closed minded. His God is science.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    acadian

    You seem to have a misconception about how change occurs.

    The Herring Gull is native to Eastern North American and Western European shorelines. In Europe there is another species, the Lesser Black-backed Gull. It doesn't interbreed with Herring Gulls. As you travel East along the Arctic shorelines, slowly the LBB Gull changes, it gets lighter in colouration. Now take one of these from any point and it will breed if released into another population say 1,000 miles away. But by the time this small, tiny change in local population's characteristics gets all the way back round to Europe, it (by this point the Herring Gull) is so different it does not interbreed with the LBB Gull, the species it descended from.

    Replace miles with years, and maybe you can see better how it works. There are no half dog, half goats. No one said there were. But using both similarities in the bones, fossil records and genetic comparison we can see that once there was a species that rather changing into another ONE changed into two (it's happened loads), and that the two seperate gene pools of dogs and goats originated from the gene pool of a common ancestor. Little, tiny changes.

    You also are looking at it like current species are destinations. They are not. If the enironment changes, so will they. Your descendent in 1,000,000 years could maybe ask the same question, not seeing you as a 'half whatever he is, half homo erectus, yet we would be the mid-point between the two even if we didn't fit your descendent's misconception about what a half/half actually looks like.

    Like tetra points out, we are fully evolved from our point of view, and so is any strain of bacteria. T Rex was fully evolved when it was around. Then things changed and it evolved some more (as some had a characteristic which meant they had more babies survive, so those charates prevalied) so whatever it became (if it became anything else) was then fully evolved for the new situation.

    skyking

    Please read the definition of the word 'theory' and reconsider what you have written. We're not being mean.

    How can he make the claim the person has deceived his mind.

    Because there is no proof of anything else having caused the experience, because there are viable physiological and psychological explanations for such experiences, and because this means that the most likely explanation is (no evidence vs. viable explanations) the person's mind has been deceived.

    Scientific method old boy. You don't have to like it or play by its rules, but as every single technological device or medical treatment you use was made by that method, mores the pity. It works. And if you don't 'play by its rules', don't expect 'us' to give credit as 'we' accept the scientific method's validity.

    Think; Dawkins has said if evolution was disproved he'd not believe in it. That is how science works. A good theory will displace worse theories, even if those who've used the old theories are rather attached to them.

    Why do you think scientic books get re-written!? Why scientific knowledge gets out-of-date unless refreshed!?

    And you say such people are CLOSED minded? How in god's sweet name do you figure that out?

    LOADS of stuff 'we' believed about the paranormal, about the Bible, about the Qu'ran, choose you the goat-herd blog of your liking, is now known to be indisputably WRONG.

    Do people stop beleiving in those books, or in the same sort of rubbish as before? No. Because they don't use the scientific method.

    Good scientists (of their day) used to believe in phlygoston and the ether. As soon as better theories came up, the old ones lost all credibility very rapidly.

    Science will totally re-draw its paradigms if someone comes up with evidence to require it. Religion and belief in the paranormal BY THEIR VERY NATURE will not totally re-draw their paradigms even if the evidence requires it.

    Believe what you like.

  • skyking
    skyking

    He has no PROOF either. I was reading just today that 70% of the universe is made up of some unknown matter that we can not seeor understand. So when you say there is no proof, you have no proof they are deceiving themselveseither. But yet we know 70% of the universe is unknown but it is ther. Be opened minded because we do not have all the answers yet. We may never have all of them.

    I'll give you an example my wife woke me up one morning and told me my nephew was going to be killed by someone that will put a gun in his mouth and shooting him. She was hysterical, I did not believe her. She demanded I tell him. I said the same thing that Hawkings would of said to her. That all Bull shit you could not know this. That very day five hours later he was murdered by his best friend. The friend put a gun in his mouth and said do you trust me? My nephew said yes I do and then pulled to trigger. This is the truth, my wife has done this over and over again. She woke up one morning and said my niece was going to be killed that weekend by a drunk driver. It happened that weekend just like she said. So the 70% of the universe might be the reason she can do this.

    Don't be so closed minded nothing gets in there.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    skyking

    He has no PROOF either.

    Of what? Be specific.

    I was reading just today that 70% of the universe is made up of some unknown matter that we can not seeor understand. So when you say there is no proof, you have no proof they are deceiving themselveseither. But yet we know 70% of the universe is unknown but it is ther. Be opened minded because we do not have all the answers yet. We may never have all of them.

    You miss the point entirely. The theories that support dark matter and energy seem to wok well. Theories built on the same principles have, in the past, later been proved. But those theories about dark matter and energy might be wrong. In which case, it will be because a better theory, or proof thereof, supplants them.

    What you have avoided ANY consideration is that your belief system, your paradigm, would not be changed by evidence, as it exists without evidence. Science changes with the evidence. Get over it.

    Don't be so closed minded nothing gets in there

    Give me proof, I'll change my mind. It is that simple. Your story is not proof. You could be mad. Or lying. Or mistaken. Not one person, ever, has ever proven a claim like yours in a court of law or a laboratory. I hope you will not mind me NOT taking your claim as proof, in view of the unlikelihood that you just happen to married to the chick in Medium.

    I have some miracle wheat I could send you. Grew 12 foot high in my garden. Proof? No. What, not interested?!

    If 1 in 500 billion people 'per night' dream about their husbands nephew being killed by someone putting a gun in their mouth, and 2,300 (I'm making this figure up it is an example) people who have live, married uncles are killed by having guns in their mouth a year, then given the population of the USA and the chance of that dream you can see LOADS of people dream something really strange happens to them or someone they know, or whatever, and it does. They ignore the millions of weird dreams that don't come true.

    Remember the JW story about the person committing suicide being called on by JW's? Proof of Angelic Intervention to the person who WANTS to believe; other people wonder on all the poor people who committed suicide with no JW's, and effect on the vagaries of chance.

  • skyking
    skyking

    You and I are arguing over nothing. Dawkins only believes what he chooses to believe. I do not believe in a God that created us with a purpose for us. We all have the singularity to over come the beginning of time. To believe science one must believe that something came out of nothing. To believe in God the same problem has to be over come.

    Some day in the future we will look back on our understanding of the universe and laugh at how stupid we are today. this is one thing we both agree on. Religion is bad and the root of almost all the evils on the earth today. As for the 70% we call dark matter several brave scientist are trying to find out. One of the theory's, theorist are looking at is an unknown state of energy that may be full of living worlds and living beings we do not recognize right now that may be interacting with us unbeknown to ourselves. That explains everything. Time will tell and open mind scientist now are trying to figure it out. When they do then maybe religion and science will find middle ground.

    There was a show last year on the Science Channel I believe that talked about this. Even Stephen Hawkins and that Chinese looking Theorist I forget his name was featured on it. The Chinese theorist said it was like the scientist hundreds of years ago that ignored the fact the earth of revolving around the Sun. He then said long held ideas are hard to change scientist today can be as stubborn as those during and after Galileo time.

    Sounds like he was talking about Dawkins and maybe even you.

  • RAF
    RAF

    To me there is no science against God … Even biblically God is the essence of everything … God is science by himself.

    Also nothing is supposed to be better for the good and bad for the bad in this life (most apostles died as martyrs – your talking about a gift?)… If anything happens in anybody’s favour (good or bad once) it’s because it serves purposes (but the main purpose of the bible is not to save anybody from this world) not at all … Which says : this is how thinks works with free will but without wisdom.

    What makes God, as the God we are talking about is the Christ = The WORD = the one who/what is answering the questions and the needs – and the needs right now – is not to please anyone – but to make people understand that they need to respect each other, taking care of those who needs it. If you do just that you prove that you have the spirit of God (you are God’s son) and deserves to go further (but right now the only permanent support that you can have is faith – Job's story is all about that he had a lot from God but he paid a lot to know which side he was really standing for). More you get in this life and more you have to give, less you have and more you have excuses (but you still have to want the good and regret the bad) that’s it.

    God Said to Adam and Eve you’re going to die … it took 900 years

    The Question is why is it so obvious for instance that Adam and Eve’s story is telling that God is insane?Which writer would have put it like that in telling that they were unconscious but still deserved to die? He wouldn’t (that’s toooo stupid) … So what is this story/the entire bible saying exactly?

    I Corinthians 1: 21. For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

    I would even say the foolishness of the solution. (he does not want to take free will out us, only the bad side of where it can lead - and he don't want to kill anybody for good if he had not proved he was worse than unusefull means a problem for everybody)

    This book is a Masterpiece check it! (I’m glad I did for real and didn’t stay on religions interpretations of it)

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit