The 100 hours has been postponed due to college football playoffs. Personally I think we're all better off when Congress is not working.
What has happened to America? Stop Bush, Stop The Ignorance.
by Morocco 60 Replies latest jw friends
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Morocco
Forcher: I appreciate your post. I suppose I do agree with some of the points you make. My post here was made because I'm angry with the world situation. I suppose, too, I have a problem with such an open-ended war like the "War on Terror". This isn't good versus evil, nothing is that simple. Bush lied, plain and simple. He has, and is, abusing his power. I don't think immediately pulling out is the answer, but what we are doing right now isn't either. Bush has made some colossal mistakes and had inflamed the situation to the point of insanity. Again, my opinions, and the reason for my anger. I am, however, curious about something. You mentioned that you disagree with the idea of diplomacy. Why is that? Why do you feel that war is the solution here? I'm not trying to be rude I'm just genuinely curious.
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Bstndance
OMG you're serious JeffT. That's crazy.
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LittleToe
Bstndance:
I'm still waiting for someone to present an alternate plan. And getting the hell out entirely and immediately is not a plan.
Of course it is. It's just an option that few in their right mind would support. That doesn't mean that it's not an option, though.
It's a real humiliating mess for everyone involved. There are no easy choices, and face has already been lost, so it's asking the impossible to look for that in any plans that might be invented.
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Forscher
Forcher: I appreciate your post. I suppose I do agree with some of the points you make. My post here was made because I'm angry with the world situation. I suppose, too, I have a problem with such an open-ended war like the "War on Terror". This isn't good versus evil, nothing is that simple. Bush lied, plain and simple. He has, and is, abusing his power. I don't think immediately pulling out is the answer, but what we are doing right now isn't either. Bush has made some colossal mistakes and had inflamed the situation to the point of insanity. Again, my opinions, and the reason for my anger. I am, however, curious about something. You mentioned that you disagree with the idea of diplomacy. Why is that? Why do you feel that war is the solution here? I'm not trying to be rude I'm just genuinely curious.
I can understand your being upset at the situation in the world as it sucks, to put it midly. But to blame it all on Bush and the U.S. is simplistic and naive. To say Bush lied shows a lack of serious research into the matter. Bush acted on and repeated what he was told by our intelligence services as well as British intelligence and the Mossad, all world-class intelligence agencies. He didn't lie, all those folks were wrong.
I agree that warring against a concept, terror, is rediculous. The struggle is with real men and women (since they participate in acts of terrorism as well) who are determined to take over the Islamic world and bring the west down. Unfortunately those folks see the west as degenerate and weak, lacking the stomach and will to fight such a war and do what has to be done to win. So there is no negotiating with them. The Saudis tried that strategy and look where it got them, they've had bombs exploded on their own soil and had to fight these fanatics in Mecca itself.
As for diplomacy, just who are you going to to negotiate with anyway? Al Qaeda? They are no country, have no diplomatic corps, and have made it clear they have no interest in anything other than our total surrender anyway. Iran? Considering the actions of the Iranian ayatollahs in spreading and financing terror groups I wouldn't fancy your chances of striking a bargain with them either. Just look at how Ahmadinejad is responding to international calls for Iran stop enriching uranium. How can you possibly think he can be counted on to negotiate in good faith anyway? For any diplomacy to succeed both parties have to be honest at the negotiation table (think in terms of Chamberlin's negotiations with Hitler and Clinton's with the North Koreans). I honestly can't see how that can possibly happen.
History shoiws that the only solution to a group like Al Qaeda is to destroy them, period. The Muslims of Syria and Persia faced a group ju8st like the modern Salafists of today, the Assasins. They were a radical group which followed the teachings of a man and assasinated Muslim leaders who stood in his way. Ultimately, they had to be destroyed, all of them. I am sure you've heard of the Thugee cult in India, their story is pretty much the same. And one could go on.
I know you dislike the barbarity you see in the solution, but trust me, that is the only way groups like that have ever been stopped. The only solution to the madmen in Iran is to break their power, like we had to do with Hitler. We can do it through the same method which brought them to power in the first place. But if we don't, we will end up having to do it the same way we did it with the Nazis. We are dealing with the same clkass of madmen.
Forscher
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Amazing
Morroco,
" ...with literal genocide?"
Where are your facts?
Jim Whitney
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I quit!
but Bush gets away with literal genocide
Literal genocide? Please explain.
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Justice-One
Hmmmmm.....seems to be running about 90/10 on this one. Maybe it will settle back to to 80/20 soon though.
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SWALKER
Here's a solution: Find a Saddam look a like and put him in power! I'm sure the CIA has plenty of dictators to choose from. We did it before and it worked for years...we just might not get as much oil out of the deal as anticipated. The majority in Iraq are showing that they are not interested in a democratic government. We just provided them with better means to carry out terrorism, namely cell-phones and computers for all. Now they are using it to their advantage to get more organized!
Swalker
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roybatty
Here's a solution: Find a Saddam look a like and put him in power! I'm sure the CIA has plenty of dictators to choose from. We did it before and it worked for years...we just might not get as much oil out of the deal as anticipated. The majority in Iraq are showing that they are not interested in a democratic government. We just provided them with better means to carry out terrorism, namely cell-phones and computers for all. Now they are using it to their advantage to get more organized!
Not a bad idea. One has to wonder....if Carter had supported the Shah of Iran would we today be battling fundy Islam???? Hmmmmm...
Regarding Bush, I don't believe he lied. HOWEVER, he should resign for simply f*cking things up. He is directly responsible for the mess in Iraq and I simply don't trust his "new plan."
IMO there are only two plans. One, divide Iraq up into three sectors (according to ethnic regions) or two, reduce our foirce to half, pull out of Bagdad and other cities, secure the ENTIRE border and have the Iraqis fight it out. Top dog wins.