Jehovah is like a dead beat dad

by MsMcDucket 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

acadian

Or were disobedient children. I like the thoughts brought out by this excerpt from the article "Objections to Christianity Answered" no author listed.
"If there really were a God of love, the innocent wouldn't suffer."
Answer: If God eradicated everyone who has ever caused pain by selfishness, cheating, lying, gossiping or hurtful remarks, who would be left?
People say, "Suffering is God's fault!", conveniently forgetting times our own anger, greed and lies hurt others. To wipe out some people who cause suffering, and spare you and me, would make God guilty of gross injustice. We have each added to humanity's shame. If there is a God of love, the people he loves and longs to place in a pain-free world are the very ones who cause humanity's suffering.
We are so far from being innocent that we owe our very existence to sin. If, for example, we traced our family tree far enough, we would probably each find an ancestor born as a result of sin - rape, unlawful incest, a despised pregnancy, sex before marriage, and the like. Humanity can boast only one perfect Person. We killed him.
Frequently, we hear or read a comment like this: "I simply cannot believe in a god who permits innocent children to starve and suffer, and men like Hitler and Stalin to murder millions of people." The examples may vary, but the thoughts are always the same. Supposedly, this is "proof" that either God doesn't exist, or that if He does, He either doesn't care about our sufferings, or He is not powerful enough to do anything about them. But suffering is neither proof of God's non-existence or existence.
Saying, "If God exists, why is there suffering?" is like saying "If San Francisco exists, why are there earthquakes?" Do earthquakes occur because San Francisco causes them? Or do they occur in spite of San Francisco? Or do they have nothing to do with San Francisco? Well, we know the answer to that question because we know about San Francisco and we know about earthquakes. But how much do we really know about God? If we define Him by our own nature, then He cannot be of any greater character than ourselves. We may ascribe to Him a greater power than ourselves, but when we suppose that God should or should not act like this or that, then all we are really saying is, "He should act like I would if I were God."
Now, let's look at starving children. The Bible says that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That includes everything necessary to feed and provide for its inhabitants. Can anyone deny that the earth is capable of producing more than enough food to feed the entire globe? Well then, if people are starving, whose fault is that? If God made the earth, is He also supposed to plant and distribute our crops for us? Do you remember the tons of food that were shipped to Ethiopia, but did not reach the starving people who needed it? Whose fault was that?
The reason that over 90% of the masses have barely enough to survive on, is that there is a problem of distribution, not of supply. A tiny minority have far more than they need, depriving the many.
Regarding suffering that is the result of sin, what could be clearer than Romans 1:28–29 and Galatians 6:8–9? The unbeliever may stomp about with all vigor and complain that it is "bigotry" to associate the rise of AIDS and other diseases to sin; that biblical morality is narrow-minded, outdated, and totally wrong. But this fact is unalterable: In a society where biblical morality is abandoned, suffering always increases. Where biblical morality is followed, suffering always declines. Always. (Isa.59:1-4).
As to Hitler, Stalin, street gangs and senseless murders: Would any of these things happen if people followed the teachings of Jesus? Do you realize what this world would be like if people simply followed God's instructions? There would be no murder, no wars. There would be no welfare, because families would take care of their own (and families would stay together) and those who did not have families would be provided for by their fellow-members in Christ. There would be no starvation… I could go on, but the point is: God has provided us answers; whose fault is it that we don't seek them or heed them when we find them?
I suspect that those who use suffering as a "proof" of God's non-existence would not want to have their free choice taken away from them, but that's exactly what God would have to do if He were to enforce His will on the earth. For if God were to intervene in the matter of suffering, would He not also intervene in the matter of sin? If He did, He would have to be a dictator. Then how would we react? We would not want that, and according to the Bible, God doesn't want it either. He wants us to obey Him because we want to, not because we have to. And in order to accomplish this, He must allow two things to happen. First, in order to grant us free choice, He must provide us with graphic examples of the consequences of the wrong choice. Secondly, He must allow injustices and sufferings; otherwise he'd provide sinful mankind with every blessing and benefit without restriction. If everything in this life was fair, good and happy, what need would there be to seek a better life? Why would we seek a Deliverer, if there was nothing to be delivered from? Suffering is not something that ought to turn people away from God, but draw them to Him." (end of excerpt)

Whether there's a God or not, it's plain to see who's fault suffering is, it's our's.
were the one's who cause all the problems in the world not God.
So either, you are the problem or you are the solution? only you know that for sure...
Acadian
MsMcDucket

Saying, "If God exists, why is there suffering?" is like saying "If San Francisco exists, why are there earthquakes?" Do earthquakes occur because San Francisco causes them? Or do they occur in spite of San Francisco?
Why would you mistreat your handicapped children? He knows that we are made imperfect. He, actually, let it happen. Like a man knowing that he has AIDS and that his children will be infected with it. Then you blame them for being sick!
Give me a break!
PrimateDave

"He has given us a home which we are destroying, he provides more food than we can eat except man's greed prevents the distribution of it. He has promised us something far greater but we must wait on Him. He has given us life and didn't have to. He has given us color, taste, senses and much more. Just because we don't recieve somthing as soon as we want, as spoiled children we shouldn't say that he isn't there. If anyone is a parent who reads this post or replys, do you give to your children as soon as they requests something, I can only imagine a spoiled child pulling on the skirt, give me, give me, give me until they get it. I sure hope not. To me He is a loving Father and has been there and will be there in the future, I am willing to wait." - abr
_____________________________________________________

Perhaps Vishnu should get the credit for giving us a home and food and everything. According to the Wikipedia: "The Vishnu Sahasranama[1] describes Vishnu as the All-Pervading essence of all beings, the master of and beyond the past, present and future, the creator and destroyer of all existences, one who supports, sustains and governs the Universe and originates and develops all elements within."

All hail Vishnu the Supreme Being and a God of the Hindu religion that is older than Judaism and Christianity! Jehovah is a usurper, a Yahweh-come-lately, a lover of burnt flesh and blood, and a coveter of foreskins.

Dave
funkyderek

avidbiblereader:
He has given us a home which we are destroying,
We're not responsible for all the destruction. The hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, solar flares and meteorites that constantly threaten life on this planet are not in any way the fault of humans. If there is a god who made this universe, then he is responsible for them. If he is omniscient, then he knew exactly what would happen. If he is omnipotent, then he could prevent them. And yet he does not. He chooses not to end, or even limit, suffering.
he provides more food than we can eat except man's greed prevents the distribution of it.
He provides enough food for only a tiny fraction of the current population. Human ingenuity and hard work has allowed us to produce an abundance of food, and indeed to overcome all the physical obstacles God put in our way (mountains, oceans, deserts) so we can distribute it.
He has promised us something far greater but we must wait on Him.
Sounds like a deadbeat dad to me. Promises, promises but he never keeps them.
He has given us life and didn't have to. He has given us color, taste, senses and much more.
Much much more. Natural disasters, diseases, old age and innumerable other ways of suffering. Why did he give those? What action of man are you going to blame for childhood leukemia or motor-neurone disease? Humans do everything they can to prevent this kind of suffering. God does nothing.
Just because we don't recieve somthing as soon as we want, as spoiled children we shouldn't say that he isn't there. If anyone is a parent who reads this post or replys, do you give to your children as soon as they requests something, I can only imagine a spoiled child pulling on the skirt, give me, give me, give me until they get it. I sure hope not.
It's not special treats or baubles that people want from their sky-daddy. It's an end to suffering that we cannot end ourselves. Imagine a parent who had the ability to make their child's pain go away, but callously refused to do so. For what? Character development? Proving a point? Punishment? What kind of sick person would think that's good parenting?
To me He is a loving Father and has been there and will be there in the future, I am willing to wait.
Don't hold your breath. You're like the kid whose deadbeat dad never comes to see him, but he thinks: "I know my daddy loves me, he'll come and see me, I know he will. Maybe I'm just too bad. If I'm really really good, maybe he'll come next weekend like he promised."
I know that we all have our opinions and mine is no better than yours or worse.
No, yours is worse. It's irrational and at odds with the evidence. Not a good opinion by any measure.
It is a shame that people have equated God with a corporation just because they said they were right and his spokesman. Stand back and see the bigger picture.
Here's the bigger picture. A little over two years ago, some 200,000 people died because their homes were in the path of a giant wall of water which was caused by tectonic plates in the earth bashing against each other. If this planet has a designer, then that designer is responsible for that. If your god has any of the qualities you attribute to him, he could have prevented that by designing it better in the first place, by intervening subtly, preventing the earthquake so nobody would ever know, or even by a great big show of stopping that wave in its tracks, making sure everybody knew they had been saved from impending disaster by the hand of God. He chose not to do any of those things - a completely free choice given that he is unlimited in his abilities, and has complete knowledge of all consequences. His thoughts are higher than my thoughts? The hell they are!
hamsterbait

Why did the wings fall off the airplane when it had such an omniscient designer?
It's the passengers' fault they all died in the ensuing crash.
HB
Sam87

this is what i posted in another thread...
Bruce has 2 dogs (a male named Rosco and a female named Shelly), Bruce just baked a nice meat pie for dinner, he puts the pie on the bench to cool down before he eats it, he then leaves the kitchen and goes to watch some TV.
Now Rosco and Shelly know how they are not supposed to each food of the bench, and they know that they will get into big trouble, theyve done it before and they learned their lesson.
But Rosco and Shelly make the mistake of jumping up onto the bench and eating half of the meat pie.
Now Bruce has finished watching TV and decides to go and eat his dinner, but he soon realises that his dogs ate it! So he puts them outside and makes them live the rest of their days in the backyard instead of sleeping at his feet on the end of his bed.
But something else happens... Rosco and Shelly get pregnant, and because Bruno is still very upset with them he waits untill they have their puppies and takes them away...
Bruce puts each of the puppies into tiny cages, barely big enough for them to blink an eyelid, he gives them only just enough dirty water and food to keep them alive, he also pokes and prods each of the puppies through the cages and torments them all day long, but he does all of this in front of Rosco and Shelly.
Bruce does all of this because the two dogs stole one pie of the bench, he does it because from that one mistake the dogs offspring have to pay for something they have nothing to do with. (instead of just punishing Rosco and Shelly).
This was just an example of how i see God (Bruce).
What 'kind God' would do something like this? The majority of us on this forum have got the best life comparred to those in third world countrys that are starving to death.
Why does someone/something like this deserve our worship? if i met a person like this i dont even want to say what i would do
In regards to people who beleive the bible -
How does one book justify all this pain and sorrow?
Why would someone (God) sacrifice their only son when they could just click their fingers and make everything ok? That seems cruel and pointless if you can fix the problem but instead you sacrifice your own son?! no one with a sane mind would do this.
sorry if some are offended by my thoughts on this, but thats really how i feel.
Sam87
funkyderek

hamsterbait:
Why did the wings fall off the airplane when it had such an omniscient designer?
It's the passengers' fault they all died in the ensuing crash.
To extend that analogy:
The designer provided a beautiful amazing plane, and the passengers just abused it. They pushed and jostled to get on board, they sat in the wrong seats, they complained about the food, they didn't pay attention to the safety talk at the start, some of them got drunk. A couple even had sex in the toilet! They deserved to die in a horrible fireball.
(The only significant difference between this analogy and the behaviour of the bible-god is that in this case the fireball is temporary.)
Sam87:
Now Rosco and Shelly know how they are not supposed to each food of the bench, and they know that they will get into big trouble, theyve done it before and they learned their lesson.
That's more than Adam and Eve got. They had never done it before and didn't understand the difference between good and bad.
tijkmo

He has given us a home which we are destroying, he provides more food than we can eat except man's greed prevents the distribution of it. He has promised us something far greater but we must wait on Him. He has given us life and didn't have to. He has given us color, taste, senses and much more. Just because we don't recieve somthing as soon as we want, as spoiled children we shouldn't say that he isn't there.
i still believe in a creator and to me things like the brain the universe taste colour music etc tell me there is an intelligent designer..
i remember when i was angry and bewildered at not being reinstated...i had not demanded it immediately like a spoilt child but i was at the point where it was beginning to effect me more detrimentally than discipline should..then my mother told me to think of all the positive things that god has provided and how thankful i should be..
about the same time an assembly item (taken by my jc chairman who was refusing to even entertain my reinstatement) discussed the importance of a child learning from discipline rather than a parent just accepting he was sorry and that he had said he wouldnt do it again..a demonstration was enacted out where a child had been caught lying..and he said he was sorry and wouldnt do it again...the parents decide to ensure he wouldnt by taking away his playstation for a week
to a child this is torture..and an eternity...but at the end of the week when his parents give him his playstation back and they say to him come and give your dad and mum a hug..then he will because he knows that his parents still love him.
but what if his parents decided that his punishment should be being locked in his room for a week with no access to the outside world or his family or friends and his food being delivered to him so he eats sleeps and does his schoolwork alone..
well kids are pretty resillient...he may well at the end of the week not forever remember that week.
but what if the parents locked him away for a year...and his frustration become such that he kicked at the door and beat his fists on the wall and shouted that he was sorry and why wouldnt anyone believe him..and his parents responded by saying well that will earn you another month incarcerated.
eventually the parents would get what they wanted..a silent broken child devoid of any spirit...and when they then open the door and let him out and say come and give us a hug..the child will look at them in disbelief..
sure he will always do what he is told from then on but he will not do it out of love..and as soon as he is physically able to he will run off never to speak to his parents again no matter how much food and presents etc they had provided.
'imperfect' governments have laws (that admittedly sometimes fails) against that kind of cruelty to kids...gods 'perfect' organization has this kind of cruelty as policy
i ran away..i never want to speak to him again
kid-A

From the Acadian post:
"Regarding suffering that is the result of sin, what could be clearer than Romans 1:28–29 and Galatians 6:8–9?"
> And? Who cares? The self-righteous moral invectives written thousands of years ago by self-appointed "prophets" are as irrelevant today as they were then.
"The unbeliever may stomp about with all vigor and complain that it is "bigotry" to associate the rise of AIDS and other diseases to sin; that biblical morality is narrow-minded, outdated, and totally wrong. But this fact is unalterable: In a society where biblical morality is abandoned, suffering always increases. Where biblical morality is followed, suffering always declines. Always. (Isa.59:1-4). "
> Biblical morality? Excuse me whilst I puke! So AIDS is the result of immoral behaviour? This is so vile and offensive a notion I dont know where to begin. So I guess the babies of HIV infected women or the unsuspecting spouses of HIV infected people should be forced to suffer along with the so-called "guilty" parties? What assanine, ass-backwards morality! Your "bible" is arguably the most monstrous and vile book of violence, murder and mayhem ever "published" on the face of the earth!
"As to Hitler, Stalin, street gangs and senseless murders: Would any of these things happen if people followed the teachings of Jesus?"
> Hmmm, well lets see, the INQUISITION happened as a result of the "Christian" church so I guess it depends on historical perspective, eh? For the record, none of these things would happen if people followed "Buddhist" teachings yet I dont know of any wars or massacres being started by fanatical buddhists, unlike the "soldiers of christ".....
"Do you realize what this world would be like if people simply followed God's instructions? There would be no murder, no wars."
> Bullshit. Read your old testament, pal. According to your loving "god", we should publicly "stone" women for adultery, children for "talking back" to their parents, etc etc. Your god IS a god of war, murder, bloodshed and mayhem. If you doubt this, give the old testament a good read through just to refresh your memory. It is carefully detailed biography of a maniacal, arrogant sky-deity intent of exacting his holy wrath of vengeance on human beings who dare to question his dictatorial, pompous campaigns of self-aggrandizement.
"There would be no welfare, because families would take care of their own (and families would stay together) and those who did not have families would be provided for by their fellow-members in Christ. There would be no starvation…"
There would be no starvation? Why, would we all get Jesus green stamps in the mail? What of naturally occurring famines and droughts? Is your suggestion that if the whole world converted to your christianity all the naturally occuring food shortages would magically disappear? Not sure what yer' smokin but please do share! LOL.....
"I could go on, but the point is: God has provided us answers; whose fault is it that we don't seek them or heed them when we find them?"
No, he has not provided any answers (understandable since he does not exist!). However, assuming your hypothesis were correct (he/she/it does indeed exist) what kind of idiot provides an "answer" in 1000s of different holy books, using thousands of different "prophets", all with conflicting, self-contradictory messages? If your god really exists, he is not only inept and impotent, he does not even possess the intellectual capacity to formulate a clear, simple answer, and yet expects the human race to bow before his grand throne and worship his incompetence? I mean really dude, think about it.
MsMcDucket

That's more than Adam and Eve got. They had never done it before and didn't understand the difference between good and bad.
That scenario in the bible is like a parent watching his small children being solicited by a child molester, and then letting them suffer the consequences. . . But not only Adam and Eve but whomever they begat will suffer the consequences. . .

Jehovah is like a dead beat dad

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