Is it this simple?

by OnTheWayOut 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    This is something I think I can say to the two elders that might eventually meet with me
    because I am not going out in service and miss many meetings, and because they were
    instructed to "snatch me out of the fire" by the WTS headquarters when I resigned as an
    elder citing "doubts" in the organization.

    Look brothers, when I said I expected the earthly representatives of God to not keep changing
    doctrines, you said they are not "inspired" like the Apostles who wrote the Bible words.

    I have looked at many WT articles that encouraged people to look at the religion they are in.
    Those articles said to examine your religion's teachings. While I am certain that was meant for
    people outside of Jehovah's Witnesses, I feel it applies here, also. SO, why is examining and
    questioning okay for Lutherans and Catholics, but questioning and examining the Governing Body
    by a JW is viewed as questioning GOD? You already said, "They aren't inspired, like the Apostles
    were. Their writing is not the Bible, it is not God's word."

    JWD posters- is it just that simple? They are not inspired when they made mistakes, but JW's
    should treat everything they say "as if" it were the word of God?

  • icocer

    Great Point. I dont know the answer to your question nor do I want to detract from your point. The reason I responded was because I asked my JW co-worker about the Bereans of more noble character thing. His responce stunned me due to his commintment to the GB. I really did not know what to say. This is great. If it might work for elders, it might work on him.

  • Abandoned

    This could go either way, but just remember, the indoctrinated are allergic to logic. The allergic reaction may cause their eyes to dilate and long-unused synapses to jump to life. Or, it may cause their already closed minds to slam further shut.

  • luna2

    It is just that simple. JWs who are still enthralled will reject it what you are saying but its the truth. The WTS is and has never been inspired. Of course, most of the time they want you to believe that they are inspired and that Jah is directing their every step...but when the org is called on their many mistakes and people try to hold them accountable...that's when they say they aren't inspired afterall and are just imperfect humans who make errors. Sorry, boys, you can't have it both ways.

  • Confession

    OnTheWay, you've got it. I'm going to post a couple of WT citations--as well as some info I used to try and reason with my mother on precisely this subject.

    “We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination.” [The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life, 1968, page 13]

    “To such remnant of faithful servants of Jehovah God Christ Jesus has entrusted all “his goods”, or earthly interests of the Kingdom. This does not signify that the faithful remnant or society of Jehovah’s anointed witnesses are an earthly tribunal of interpretation, delegated to interpret the Scriptures and its prophecies. No; Christ Jesus the King has not entrusted that office to them. THE SUPREME COURT STILL INTERPRETS, thank God; and Christ Jesus, the Court’s official mouth-piece of interpretation, reserves to himself that office as Head of Jehovah’s “faithful and wise servant” class. He merely uses the “servant” class to publish the interpretation after the Supreme Court by Christ Jesus reveals it. How does the Lord God make known the interpretation? By causing the facts to come to pass visibly which are in fulfillment of the prophecy or dark saying or misunderstood scripture. Thereafter “in due season” he calls such fulfillment or clarification of prophecy and scripture to the attention of his “faithful and wise servant” class. Thereby he makes them responsible to make known the meaning of such scriptures to all members of the household of faith and to all persons of goodwill. This constitutes giving them “meat in due season.”” [Watchtower 1943, p. 203]

    What the heck are they actually saying here, Mom? The claim is made that Jesus has entrusted all his “earthly goods” to them and uses them to “publish” interpretations. But they are not actually doing the interpreting. No. God and Christ do so. Does this make sense? How is this different from any other religion whom the Watchtower Society itself would accuse of being a false prophet? Yes, even they are not suggesting their interpretations have come entirely from their own powers, but that they were supposedly supplied with them by God. Does this salvage their reputation with the Watchtower Society? Certainly not.

    God and Christ have no need to interpret something for themselves that they have already set forth in the scriptures. It is we humans who need an interpretation. Who gives it to us? The Watchtower Society. So, the claim goes, God and Christ inspired the writing of the scriptures and supply the meaning of it to some in association with the Watchtower Society, and those men publish this meaning to the rest of us.

    While they may disclaim being “inspired,” they definitely claim to be the one agency on earth to whom God is communicating. The one agency he has ‘made responsible’ to distribute his truths. They often refer to God’s “revealed truth.” If it is revealed, who revealed it? The assertion is that God revealed it. If God revealed it, how can it be anything other than inspired and infallible?

    It’s an interesting line they walk. They claim not to be inspired, but they speak with the same amount of authority as if they are. They demand they be considered as if inspired, not even allowing the flock to question or have doubts about anything they teach without coming under scrutiny. Yet when accused of being false prophets, they then beg off from responsibility, escaping under a manufactured definition of what the word “prophet” means, suggesting that prophet doesn’t necessarily suggest divinely inspired prophet.

    Easton’s Bible dictionary provides the same definition for “prophet” found anywhere else. It shows that the Hebrew word translated “prophet” is nabi. It meant “to bubble up as from a fountain,” hence “to utter.”
    “The "prophet" proclaimed the message given to him...(See Num. 12:6, 8.) Thus a prophet was a spokesman for God; he spoke in God's name and by his authority (Ex. 7:1).”

    The meaning is not complex. Clearly this definition fits the position the Watchtower Society itself admits it has assumed. Again quoting from the 1943 Watchtower, “…he makes them responsible to make known the meaning of such scriptures…”

    And what does the Bible say about such ones?

    20 "'However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.' [Deuteronomy 18:20-22, NWT Reference Bible]

    It’s pretty simple, Mom. They claim to be Jehovah’s mouthpiece, and the things they repeatedly said would come true didn’t. According to the Bible, this is not something God takes lightly. The sentence was death. It is also interesting to note the Bible’s counsel for us not to “get frightened at” such a false prophet. It would appear that God may have known that false prophets often try to frighten people into following them.

  • avidbiblereader

    Great point OntheWayOut, yes is is that simple in a normal mind, yes it that simple in a logical one, yes it is that simple if you were fair. But don't expect that you are dealing with any of the above. You will see most likely. Ok, if you don't want to play by my rules, then I am going to take my ball and go home. You will mostly likely get to know what being 3 points means, when you get kicked through the uprights.


  • bernadette

    Onthewayout, I have privately asked something similar and have been told

    order and unity is paramount

    because god is a god of order and not of disorder

    so all jws must believe the same thing at any given time

    therefore it does not matter if its right or wrong or if its going to change

    so long as everyone believes it at the same time

    be prepared for that one.

    (its a quick step dance imho)


  • Will Power
    Will Power

    I am not a jw, but was told by an elder "Loyalty to the organization is more important than the truth"

    Now I don't know whether he meant truth or Truth™

    also with the WT organization being defined as the legal representative of jws, which is also how they describe the position of a "mediator" - a legal representative.

    but then you have that pesky bible that says Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and well as the Mediator.

    The "org" has clearly set themselves up in the place of Christ (acting like annointed ones = messiahs) or, the disgusting thing in the holy place.

    They expect YOUR loyalty to enforce this on your brothers. They use dishonesty, change their past, misquote, and so much more to get what they want. POWER It cannot exist without compliance.

    Whether you are a christian or not, believe in the bible or not - what IT is doing, and expect others to do, is wrong.

    It is that simple!

    Good Luck

  • Gadget

    orthing at any given time

    therefore it does not matter if its right or wrong or ifder and unity is paramount

    because god is a god of order and not of disorder

    so all jws must believe the same its going to change

    so long as everyone believes it at the same time

    I've heard this reasoning before, but its not in line with biblical principles. The example of Uzzah clearly shows that if your doing something that god does not approve of, the fact that you were instructed to do it by his earthly representative is irrelevant. He still hands out his punishment for it.

  • Justice-One

    Be careful. They will most likely tell you (with a straight face) that although the GB is not inspired...they are spirit directed.

    I went round and round about this wife my wife. I told her that words do mean things, and the definition of inspired, is spirit directed. She just told me to keep those "apostate" things to myself.

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