Thank you for your concern kid-a. Regarding the resolution, I was unable to attend that portion of the District Convention...scheduling difficulties.
Justitia
My Xmas Card Delivered to the Kingdom Hall!!
by AK - Jeff 47 Replies latest jw experiences
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moshe
Justitia, since you say you are not an apologist for the JW's, then I expect to see you express your own opinion at the meetings in the KH. If you can't do that , then you are an apologist by default.
Dear Moshe: That is classic JW black and white thinking (fallacy).
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Justitia, I spent some time reviewing your posts, like a good attorney does in preparing a case.
If you lived in Saudi Arabia you would be subject to Saudi religious laws, right? So , if you broke one of their laws you would be subject to their legal system and the appropriate punishment, if found guilty. So what would make any JW think they can operate outside the WT legal sysem of rules and punishments?
Now you originally claimed when joining JWDF that you still believed that the WT Society was Jehovah's organization, despite it's problems. As far as I have seen you have never repudiated that position. Since you are still under the JW rules and have not removed yourself from them in having WT Jurisdiction over you, then you must operate under WT laws and punishments. And guess what, it's a black and white world in the KH,ie. -We are right and everyone else is wrong. I see a reasoning on your part that you can still be in the KH, go through the outward motions of approved JW life and yet have an independent mind and be able to justify some thinking that is contrary to approved WT teachings/beliefs. My guess is you don't want to suffer the punishments that are meted out to anyone who leaves the organization, so that is why you are still an official JW right now.
I see also that you understand legal issues- For your consideration---
A JW debates a Mormon about who is the one true religion on earth and a stalemate ensues so they go to an impartial Beit Din- a Jewish religious court of law- The Rabbis say " We have three choices here,
#1- The JW is right , #2- the Mormon is right or #3, they are both wrong , it's a black and white open and shut case".
The JW protests -""But ,We are God's chosen organization on earth, The G-Body told me so!"
The Rabbi says : "We have three choices here"
Jehovah has seen all the WT doctrinal flip flops, false prophecies, innocent deaths from WT medical rules, KH protected pedophiles, etc and:
A: He saw it and doesn't care
B: He saw it and does care, but can't do anything about it
C: God didn't see anything, doesn't care and can't do anything.
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Now my friends, which answer is in your opinion the right one?
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Dagney
Can anybody pick out Abraham, Moses, Joshua or David?
Anybody?
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AK - Jeff
Justicia -
In reply to your question:
Moshe and Juni have made accurate statements - it is fun. I will add to that - that it is theraputic also.
Lawrence's experience is closer to the real depth of reason for this kind of thing for me.
Additional reasons - and I believe serious ones in the quest to eventually see this organization crumble;
- If the elders are hassled by a known apostate [and surely they have no difficulty in knowing I was the culprit who left the card] - they always react by 'turning the screws' on the local dubs - they crack down on anything that might allow someone to begin thinking - special needs parts - spying on the brothers - more pressure for service and meeting attendance - increased paranoia regarding what else might be happening that they are unaware of, what reading material is getting thru the 'filters', etc.
Anytime they use bold fear and pressure to drive the flock, it opens opportunities for someone to begin to see the oppressive side of this horrible religious cult. Anything I can do to open an eye or two will be positive in the long run.
- Did you read the message? I was not critical of the organization's past celebration of Xmas - I could care less - I used that picture [one that many dubs are familiar with] to grab attention to both the duplicity of the current stance - but more importantly - to read the message regarding the 'increase of annointed ones'. 99% of dubs won't get it. You didn't. But there is a slight minority who will connect the dots - seeing that the number of 'partakers' cannot be correct, now 70 years after the supposed 'sealing'. And that there could never be an 'increase' at this late date. Substitutional annointing doesn't cover it either - since if 234 fell away and 234 replaced them, the number, would at best, remain the same - it could not increase under that premise.
I consider that I have a 'mission' if u will. I cannot overturn Brooklyn and her hateful lies. But I might reach one lonely pioneer or elder or pub who happens to put 2 and 2 together over time, some of that math coming from the implanted doubts that I might leave on thier doorstep.
This particular matter is close to my heart also - and unless you went back and read all of my 4000 posts here, you could not have known. The failure of the annointed to die on schedule was the matter that made me begin to look into the Watchtower's prophecies. I had seen 1975 fail - didn't phase me at the time. I had seen the change in the generation - bothered me, but I hung on. When the annointed refused to die at the rate people die - I saw a problem - 6 months later I was out of 48 years of oppression.
One never knows what will finally trigger the brain to wake up. I may never see another witness come out from my efforts - but when I stand at judgement it cannot be said I did not try with all my might. There are greater caused on this planet - but none as close to my heart as this one.
Jeff
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Justitia Themis
Moshe:
I don't think I'm totally understanding your post, but I will try to answer your questions.
Jehovah has seen all the WT doctrinal flip flops, false prophecies, innocent deaths from WT medical rules, KH protected pedophiles, etc and:
A: He saw it and doesn't care
Perhaps
B: He saw it and does care, but can't do anything about it
Perhaps.
C: God didn't see anything, doesn't care and can't do anything
Perhaps
However, again, I don't construe things as narrowly as you. I submit:
Perhaps he sees it, and intends on doing something about it in the future? Perhaps he doesn't see anything because he doesn't exist? Your questions rely upon the premise that an "organization" is or is not approved. Who said there is an approved organization? Perhaps individuals belonging to many organizations (or even no organization) are approved?
I have the following tag on my personal e-mail: "The questions you ask set limits on the answers you will find. Temple Grandin" For 47 years I have conflicted with the WTBTS because I ask questions. Interestingly, it was my asking some simple questions regarding human motivation that ellicted your and Lawrence's hostile responses. Again, that seems more JW to me than not.
My guess is you don't want to suffer the punishments that are meted out to anyone who leaves the organization, so that is why you are still an official JW right now.
Absolutely correct, AND I am unrepentant in my stance. I am a social person; I like to worship with others. It makes me happy. I enjoy the individual friends I have at the KH; they are good people. I do distinguish them from JW leadership. I do not want worship somewhere where they celebrate Christmas. I do not want to worship where they ask for whom I am going to vote.
You do not see it that way and have left. I do not have an issue with your decision; why do you have an issue with mine?
Justitia
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Justitia Themis
it is fun. I will add to that - that it is theraputic also.
Thanks for the response AK-Jeff. That's an interesting thought process; hopefully you will meet with success.
Justitia
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Sunnygal41
Chutzpah!!!
SG - that's a nice word - Chutzpah!!! I don't think I have been accused of that before - is it anything like whooping-cough?
Jeff
lol.............I LOVE Yiddish........it is soooooo expressive! Verklempt is another Yiddish word I like, along with Zaftig hutz·pa
/ 'x?tsp?, 'h?t- / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ kh oot-spuh, hoot- ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun Slang . 1. unmitigated effrontery or impudence; gall. 2. audacity; nerve. Also, chutzpah, hutzpa, hutzpah.
[Origin: 1890–95; < Yiddish khutspa < Aram h?us?pa] Main Entry: verklempt Part of Speech: adjective Definition: overcome with emotion; clenched; also written ferklempt Etymology: Yiddish zaf·tig
/ 'z?ft?k, -t?g / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ zahf-tik, -tig ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –adjective Slang . 1. (of a woman) having a pleasantly plump figure. 2. full-bodied; well-proportioned. Also, zoftig.
[Origin: 1935–40; < Yiddish zaftik lit., juicy, succulent; cf. MHG saftec, deriv. of saf(t), OHG saf (G Saft) sap 1 , juice] -
Sunnygal41
Can anybody pick out Abraham, Moses, Joshua or David?
Anybody?
lmao@Dagney!
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Sunnygal41
Jeff, you've got me thinking.......lol.........that is extremely dangerous, btw.......I know a few JW's that I would LOVE to send this card to..........hmmmmm
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SirNose586
Middle table, 5 th person on the left-hand side, is N.H. Knorr. I'm pretty sure it's him, with the arms folded.
Jeff, I'm thinking your card might initiate a local needs part on apostasy. They might put the screws on. Wouldn't it be awesome to have a contact inside the hall to see what happened because of it?
/ 'x?t
–noun Slang .