DannyBear,
You give up trying to reason with me????
I could have phrased that better. I give up trying to communicate with you. From your replies, I gather that you do not understand what I am trying to communicate, and this frustrates me. I gather that you are equally frustrated with me.
Your reply simply restated your already clearly defined opinions. Yet again you would not directly answer my pointed question.
I have seen many questions in your posts, many of which have little to do with the issues I have chosen to address--how analogies shape our thinking and the danger of dehumanizing an enemy. Please tell me which of your questions is the pointed one, and I will do my best to answer.
I made your own point as far as the recognizing that killing terrorists, only give them cause for claim as 'martyrs'...you must have just skim read those words.
I read that, Danny. As I see it, whether these men should be killed is a side issue from the one that began this thread. I commented only because it seems so ludicrous to try to use death as a deterrent with people who are taught not to fear death.
Teejay began this thread by noting, "Patriotism is a religion just like every other religion." It is not often that I agree with Teejay, but I do agree with him somewhat on this point. Patriotism can be a religion if one is fanatical about it. Especially in times of war, a country's cause becomes holy and the propaganda machine begins to churn. People are worked up into an emotional furor and begin seeing things in black and white, my country vs. the enemy.
In your first post to this thread, you explain that the current situation is like a sporting event. There is no point in attending the game unless you choose sides and get caught up in the pride and emotion. There is no room for moderates and "fence-sitters." One team must win.
I tried to point out the hazards of using such an analogy. I also pointed out some of the reasons people get emotional about sporting events and why team pride can be an inappropriate source of personal pride and self-esteem.
You answer, characterizing me as a person who wishes to do nothing to remedy the terrorist situation. You did not address the issue of analogies. Thinking in black or white terms, either Ginny is a patriot or a pacifist.
I explain my stance and come back to the issue of analogies. I try to show how different analogies produce different solutions.
You answer, accusing me of being indoctrinated by a socialist educational system and politically correct media propaganda. You ask, "What do we do about those who want to kill you, yes you Ginny, wherever and whenever they may have the chance?"
I tell you exactly what I did when someone wanted to kill me. I have looked down the barrel of a gun. I have faced people with knives in their hands. I believe violent people should be restrained. Killing them should be a last resort.
You reply that these terrorists are different. They went about their day-to-day lives appearing normal, so you conclude that they deliberately wished to be evil. You close by characterizing them as "scum sucking pigs."
Your "scum sucking pigs" comment bothers me a great deal, because this is the sort of language that fuels the propaganda machine of a holy cause.
It may be that one of the earliest human inventions was the image of an enemy. And shortly after that came the weapon, for killing. Typically, propaganda changes the enemy from a human being into a demon, an incarnation of evil, a stain that must be wiped from the earth. The human face, which might be loved, is changed into a loathsome thing, an animal. The Jap becomes an ape, the Nazi a blond beast, the American a capitalistic pig, the communist an atheist, the Jew a vermin.from The Passionate Life by Sam Keen
Think also about the Society's characterizations of apostates as "ravenous wolves" and "venomous snakes."
We can simply say 'we disagree'...without all the drama.
Perhaps I have been overly dramatic about this issue. It is one that touches me deeply. I come to this board in part because I want to share what I have learned about cognitive distortions such as mind-reading and dichotomous thinking. I also am alert to the dangers of cult indoctrination. It pains me to see you persist in using the characterizations typical of propaganda. Propaganda is very close to indoctrination on the continuum of influence.
http://www.workingpsychology.com/ethics2.html
Where in any of my posts have been calling for revenge?
Where in any of my posts to this thread have I said that you are calling for revenge?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from reading your posts, I gather that you want those responsible for terrorism to die. If I'm reading you correctly, it does not particularly matter to you if they are brought to trial first. If the U.S. military can go in and find them and kill them, that's great.
My wish is that those responsible for terrorism will be treated as are other murderers in this country and will be captured and restrained. I hope they are brought to trial. I hope that a court determines what is a just and suitable punishment. Given the circumstances, I realize this may not be possible. If killing is done, I hope that it is used as a last resort and not as a first choice.
I don't demand that you agree with my views about the terrorist situation. I am frustrated that you appear to have missed the point about how analogies shape one's thinking and how dehumanizing an enemy is akin to propaganda, especially after reading the information I have shared.
Ginny
