WITNESSES REACTION TO FACING DEATH......

by Mary 36 Replies latest jw friends

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    Mary - I am sorry you have this to cope with. At least you're not in the kind of denial they are in. Hugs to you. And I am terribly sorry to hear your friend is in so much suffering amidst an atmosphere of complete denial. Denial is normal for a time, but when it never ends, people don't heal and can't really grieve and can't even be free to really comfort each other or themselves.

    If she is still alive and in the hospital, maybe she would appreciate you remembering some of her favorite songs (other than Kingdom Melodies) and bring her a little of that to listen to (with the right media player).

    Near the end of a friend's death with cancer a few years back, her daughter and husband brought a tape player and played her favorite music quietly beside her bed.

    When she passed, she was surrounded by 13 of us who took turns holding, massaging, and stroking her while talking to her, even though she could not respond due to the morphine; and we took turns gently massaging her cold feet for many hours.

    During the throes of death, her husband, despite his own terror, told her over and over,"Everything is going to be alright," just to comfort her in the fear and helplessness. I will always remember to offer that kind of comfort for anyone facing any such thing for as long as I live. It was not denial, but comforting words to and from someone in terror of great loss.

    I have never witnessed anything like that among the JWs during such events, other than people coming and going and preaching to each other and to the sick person about Jehovah's this and Jehovah's that. It's sickening to see. [Edited to say sorry for the rambling about my personal experiences here; they are somewhat, vaguely relevant and in brackets, if you want to skip it; I guess I'm in bi-polar graphomanic mode these past few days.]

    I read a very good book on the subject of facing terminal illness years ago by Elizabeth Kubler Ross. She posited that there are stages to grieving, including denial and anger. Many JWs, if not most, force themselves, at least publically, to skip the anger stage, and stay stuck in denial forever due to their belief in the Big R - Resurrection - and due to the fear of approbation from other members if they "grieve too much" - a sign of lacking faith, as someone said.

    As you know, they also believe their deceased loved ones are just going to sleep for a short time, and they'll see'em right around the bend after the Big A - Armageddon. So happily enough, funerals turn into big, almost celebratory, sometimes tearful, family reunions. And the Watchtower Society gets to preach endlessly about hope for everlasting life and how committed to field service the deceased one was. Ain't that dandy?

    I think I may not even attend any more JW funerals or hospital scenes (even for my own parents), because the last couple JW services (and hospital scenes) I attended were too disturbing (and angering) for me.

    Warning: Personal Ramble. I did not mean to do so, but I feel the need to qualify some of the above, which is probably not applicable to your friend, Mary: [I should couch the statement (about not showing up for any more family health crisis/funerals) by pointing out that there are a number of hypochondriacs and psycho-somatics (both jw and non) in my family, whose illnesses have created quite a bit of drama that I just don't need. It's such a great way for them (the hypochondriacs and psychosomatics) to divert attention if they're overwhelmed by cognitive dissonance (or their genuine illness is triggered by something that recalls childhood trauma, or some such thing).

    I finally realize that it can be an effective defense mechanism - that is totally unconscious - to avoid addressing any repressed issues, personal failures, abuse, and family problems (denial).

    And it even gets the disfellowshipped daughter (me) to the hospital (over and over) for a "necessary business" visit. The other perk (for them) can be that being sick gets commendations and kudos from elders and other JWs when the sick stoically face their terrible traumas - (and some of them have been truly horrible, I admit) - even if their own untreated emotional and/or psychiatric problems, reinforced by "waiting on Jehovah" instead of getting help - are what created or contributed primarily to the drama/trauma in the first place.

    Danny Haszard's experiences with his illness come to mind, for me. If you've not read his story, please do.

    Now, I do not believe that my analysis applies to your friend with cancer; I just feel the need to qualify my reasoning in not wanting to visit my jw family when they are hospitalized/sick, even dying. I am not being callous; just realistic cuz I've been through it a few times and some of my immediate family's defense mechanisms involve chronic physical illnesses that might very likely be avoided if they got psychiatric help and took better care of themselves and of each other . Thanks to the Watchtower Society and their personal denial, they just don't.

    Understand that I am not unsympathetic to their illnesses, including the mental ones; they usually do suffer from troubles that mimic heart attacks and suffer from IBS (which sent my mom to the hospital in very serious pain); and, (in my deceased grandmother's case), from diabetes and heart disease, and such, over the years.

    Some members of my JW family seem to unconsciously create such drama by neglecting themselves and each other, which is the case with my other, still-living grandmother, in my opinion.

    The consequences of bad health and lots of attention from the Society - (for facing it with hope (denial), and faith (more denial) and stoicism (intense denial) - reinforce silly ideas about "waiting on Jehovah" and the promise of everlasting life]. End of semi-relevant personal ramblings.

    One of my non-JW aunts and I have made a pact with each other in the event of our own deaths: There will be NO JW service for us. And if I survive my other JW relatives, I'll very likely conduct my own private services (if I feel the need) and probably not go to any more JW services ever. I will attend viewings, cremations, and burials AFTER the JWs finish their blathering about hope for everlasting life, cuz they rarely if ever conduct true memorials of their members' lives.

    They just use funerals and sickness as an excuse to preach about this "bad ole world" and how Satan tries them so, and how they have so much hope for living after they die, which sounds kind'a nice, except for the part before you die - where you get to live for years on end, waiting on Jehobo. Sorry you are going through this, Mary. Many have and many will. I think it is very good of you to go to your friend, even though she did not go to you in your time of need. She is sick in more than one way, I suppose. Do what you need to do for yourself and for her. Everyone copes in different ways. Hugs to you and to her.

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    Oops. Sorry about that double post; deleted.

    I do not wish to imply that everyone makes themselves sick. That I definitely DO NOT buy. Just want to point out there are many factors in the mix, regarding health and wellness that include, but are not limited to weird thinking patterns/behaviours and that JWism seems to foster physical as well as mental illness among its members.)

    And sorry to be so trite, but "Denial is more than a river in Egypt."

    Denial is a permanent state of mind for Jehovah's Witnesses, especially when facing death and sickness.

    Everything related above is typical of JWs, and of other people (or groups) stuck in deep denial.

    To what someone above posted regarding the stages of grief/loss:

    I agree about the stages, but not with your idea that she'll come around to acceptance. Acceptance is far less likely for her than continuing denial.

    Pioneering is probably part of the bargaining (stage of loss/grieving), as someone suggested, and people usually do go back and forth in the stages, and there is overlap of behaviours/attitudes reflecting the progress through those stages.

    Unless Mary's friend leaves the bOrg, it is almost certain that she will vacillate between denial, bargaining, and possibly anger, which will likely be projected onto others, including you, Mary, I'm sad to say, which essentially qualifies it as more denial.

    This is such a sad state of affairs for people facing enormous fear and loss, who are yet unable and unwilling to truly acknowledge dying as a natural function, much less accept it.

    Best wishes, Mary. I am glad to hear that you are doing well yourself and I hope that you continue to nurture yourself and to stay well.

  • new boy
    new boy

    Frankly I think their attitude is commendable!

    I don't think the way JWs do anymore.

    I also don't think death is the end of everything.--------but a transition.

    I believe when we die we ALL go to a better place----------Even JWs!!!------- They like most everyone else, are very surprized what they find there!

    NB

    "'REALITY IS AND ILLUSION--------BUT A VERY PERSUASIVE ONE"----Albert Einstein

  • BCZAR2ME
    BCZAR2ME

    I sure hope there is no mopping when facing my mortality.

    Talk to me about something else, anything except my illness.

    bczar

  • Madame Quixote
    Madame Quixote

    I think I understand that BCZAR. When one is sick, one does not want to become their illness, does not want to be defined by it; you just own it, the way you own other body parts, other issues, the way you own other delightful things, as well.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    My Mom had cancer, but, died directly from Watchtower poisoning. [no blood] Her eyes were fearful and sad like all the non-dubs...the JW's were sad and not fearful, but, buoyed by the thought "...she'll wake up in the Pair-of-dice...it'll seem like a blink of her eyes..and if we remain faithful...we'll meet her there!"

    Everybody say...Awwwwwwwwwwww...

    Every time a JW has tried to convince me to 'come back into the fold' they've used that same blackmail enticement: "You don't want to HURT your mother when she wakes up and says, "Where's 'Rabbit'," DO YOU ?"

    If we 'remain faithful' by dying, shunning, not helping 'worldly' people and other stupid cult stuff...we get a 'hope'. Forget it. The cost is way too high. I would rather not have a 'back up plan', I think that will help make me be the best person I can be now...and NOT for the motivation of that juicy carrot on the end of that stick.

    I cannot imagine why there would even be a "life" and then a separate "after-life". What's the point? We absolutely know what physical life is...we have it! Why would we want an unknown, unproven 'spirit' "life"? It's "pie in the sky."

    If there is a god/goddess/creator type, who even remembers or cares about us and wants to give us some special 'after-life'...then, 'it' will do whatever-the-hell 'it' wants to do with my dead body and volatile memories. If, so, that's where I'll be. If not...I'll be fine fertilizer, because I am surely very full of sh*t.

    Yep, maybe you can tell...I think dub minds and funerals suck.

    rabbit

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I remember one Witness who died of cancer in his forties. He was so scared of death. He too had to be majorly sedated and still died kicking and screaming.

    Another circuit overseer's wife died of cancer and he continued as circuit overseer instead of spending those last months with her. I always felt that was wrong and his place was with her.

    I think the nothingness of the grave is enough to scare anyone, especially after you've been convinced you will never have to die. A friend of mine told me that her mother died and a Witness told her that she was not in heaven, but just in the grave. This so upset her. She said that is like saying she is no better than an animal buried in the back yard.

    I look at death as I used to before the Witnesses came into my life. I know that God will be there and take care of me. I believe it is a start of something new, but the details we will find out then. Still, I have had to get used to feeling mortal again after believing that I would just live through the great tribulation without ever dying for so long.

  • Gerard
    Gerard
    Still, I have had to get used to feeling mortal again after believing that I would just live through the great tribulation without ever dying for so long. -CL

    Wow!! I always wondered why the feeling of superiority of some JWs... it is the implanted illusion of immortality in the physical sense. No wonder some get stuck in denial for so long.

    Damned cult.

  • Roski
    Roski

    When I had to make arrangements for my son's burial I asked my parents (elder) if they would like to contribute to a family plot at the crematorium, where everyone would eventually be together. The response was an overwhelming 'no'... definitely a 'denial' reaction...and my father is 84!! Their attitude seemed to border on my 'lack of faith' that they would survive into the new system/world. I just hope they will go quickly as dealing with the recognition/resignation will be very difficult.

  • Mary
    Mary
    Their attitude seemed to border on my 'lack of faith' that they would survive into the new system/world.

    Witnesses use any preparations for anything in the future of "this System of Things" as a 'lack of faith', whether it's for burial purposes, retirement or even a career. It's only when they're actually face to face with the reality of their situation does it finally kick in. My father believes this is 'the Truth" but I think he realizes more and more that he's going to die one day, which absolutely terrifies him. As for me, I have no fear of death, as I believe our spirit goes on and we are not simply dead in the ground. A friend of mine sent me a PM last month describing the Near Death Experience he had years ago while he was still a Witness. After describing what happened, he told me that he no longer fears death.

    The Witnesses' claim to offer such a fabulous hope for mankind-----so much better than what the churches offer, but I fail to see how telling someone that their loved one is simply dead in the ground is a better hope than heaven.

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