The Science of Belief (page 2)

proplog2

Religion seems to have some real survival value. Prayer can be inexpensive therapy. The idea of "believing" (imagining) you are talking to someone you can't fool that and who can read your inner most desires brings the possibility for objectivity that only the brutally honest can achieve spending hours practicing.

To achieve the same results as prayer would require many hours learning, linguistics, semantics, rhetoric, philosophy, & science. The average person doesn't have that luxury.

But like any human endeavor it must be done in the context of community. Religious practice needs peer review just like science. Otherwise, you get people like Born Again Bush who believes God told him he was chosen to fix the middle east.

That is the most redeeming thing about science or at least the philosophy of science. You HAVE to prove it to others.

Sad emo

Great strides are being made in exploring the "outer" world, and there's no doubt about the tangible benefits this has produced. Unfortunately our understanding of the "inner" world is atrophying through materialist neglect. I guess it's understandable, as few are willing to take the abuse that it heaped upon them for daring to study such a "worthless" science.

We had a surgeon from India here who said a big cause of the overload on the NHS was the neglect of the spiritual/emotional care of patients. Here, patients are often only treated for their presenting symptoms without any investigation into the possibility of a root cause - eg psychosomatic, stress related etc. The patient merely gets 'fixed' until the next time whilst the underlying cause goes unnoticed and untreated.

A bit like continually topping up the oil in your car without working out why you're having to do it so often or where its all going!

In the more '***backward***' country of India however, holistic patient care is taken very seriously and they have fewer 'serial' patients!! The medical staff are even allowed to pray with patients if the patient wishes, something which is no longer PC in the UK.

We have a lot to (re)learn...

outoftheorg

OK OK ! I know that some of ya will laugh or sneer at this but here goes.

If I feel a cold or other short illness coming on I will do this.

When I go to bed I will talk to my sub conscious. Actually wisper so as not to disturb my mate.

I will tell my mind about the cold or what ever and ask it to encourage my immune system to attack the invading cause and stop the illness from taking hold. I tell my body that they can do this and that I don't have time for an illness and need this time to work or what ever.

I remind my body of times in the past where they did this and won the war. It almost always works.

Often I will use this also to reach a wanted goal, and of course this requires action on my part and often this is achieved so quickly that I am astounded.

At times I will include the "universal consciousness" sp?. Can't prove anything but I get the (feeling) that it is helping also.

Since everything the body does is connected to the brain in one way or another It has lots of abilities we have not noticed yet.

OK now you can laugh at me and throw anything that is soft. No rocks!

Outoftheorg

watson

Interesting thread.

I'm not laughing, outoftheorg.

Watson

LittleToe

Proplog:Excellent points!

There was a day when peer review was conducted by priesthoods and mystery schools. In an age of charlatans, this is becoming a distant memory. For some decades anyone can join the clerics. IMHO this is one reason that the WTS was able to grow, as it had ample ammunition against such vagrancies.

Emo:Practical points and a good analogy. This is something that we're trying to promote in the arena of Mental Health. Ironically the idea of Mental Wellbeing is scoffed at even by advanced practitioners. I suspect some of the issue is due to under-resourcing. How can you stem the tide of illness if the tide is already up to your armpits and rising? A vocation becomes mere work and disillusionment ensues.

OOTO:
That would be the kind of thing I'm talking about. Kudos to you for sharing

~throws soft rubber chicken~

Deputy Dog

LT

But there's a catch. The mind isn't easily fooled by self. It's a little like attempting to tickle yourself, which if you've never tried should be attempted forthwith, to experience the difficulty of the task.

It's not as hard as you think, you just need the right motivation.

See: http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/PA207.htm It's long but worth the read.

Near the end of this article he gives an example of a woman being self-deceived concerning her child.

As someone with an occupation and a keen interest in Mental Health and Wellbeing, I see examples every day of how the mind affects the health of the body. While I applaud medical science for bringing me the opportunity to have my hips replaced, should I need that service in the future, and producing drugs that may offset the effects of altzeimers, I just hope that my mind will remain intact and not sustained merely by a cocktail of chemicals that cause my neurons to dance to the whim of a doctor attempting to reconcile a normative pattern of mood.

I know drugs help when used properly, but, It's hard for me to not be on edge when drugs are in the mix. sorcerers - (greek word) pharmakos

LittleToe

DDog:

It's not as hard as you think, you just need the right motivation.

I was talking about the difficulty of belief, not the ease of disbelief

I know drugs help when used properly, but, It's hard for me to not be on edge when drugs are in the mix. sorcerers - (greek word) pharm akos

You have a problem with Psychiatrists and the medical use of drugs? WHile I express my own concerns in those comments, I also know that there are genuine complaints.

Generations of JWs have be enslaved by treatable mental health problems due to indoctrination about the fearful affects of pharmakia as used by the Mental Health profession.

Deputy Dog

LT

I was talking about the difficulty of belief, not the ease of disbelief

Did you read the article?

You have a problem with Psychiatrists and the medical use of drugs? WHile I express my own concerns in those comments, I also know that there are genuine complaints.

I know they can and do help many people. I also know that they can be and are misused. The trick is finding the right ~~pharmakos~~,I mean doctor doctor .

outoftheorg

Yes I also am concerned with the pharmaceuticals that may be prescribed and if they interact in a dangerous way.

I always ask questions of the pharmacist as well as with the doctor as to what this mix may or may not do.

I think we all have that responsibility due to the over worked doctors and pharmacy assistants.

Little toe I am going to get that chicken and shove it up, ah fagetabout it.

Outoftheorg

Deputy Dog

LT

I'd love to get your take on the connection between knowledge and belief.

The Science of Belief

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