The Judeo-Christian premise for our destroying the earth?

by daystar 40 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  daystar

  "Far from having made 'all objects sacred' Christianity, in the wake of the Bible, has emptied the world of every sacred dimension. The biblical and Christian idea of a divine transcendence manifested in the creative act of God, the very idea of God the Creator, disenchants the whole world, and the world remains only an object created by the voluntary will of the Lord. From such a perspective, the world is only a 'sign' of a presence, the 'other.' The sign of another world or hidden world (Nietzsche). It can no longer be intrinsically the site of the sacred. It becomes a simple object appropriated by human reason, in conformance with the injunction in Genesis, which enjoins man to rule the earth. What the ancients called the 'soul of the world' suddenly disappears. In this way the slow process of 'disenchantment' of the world begins, as described by Weber."
  
  - Alain de Benoist (from "Reply To Milbank," Telos, Spring 2006)

  I try to get to the core of things. I tend to question, not only the surface of things, but also the questions themselves, the "why"s themselves. What some people take as self-evident, I most often do not.

  I look at Christianity and what I see is a religion that, at its core, detests the material world. Why not allow it to be plowed against its nature, raped? The earth is something to be put into submission, to be ruled. God creates man in his image and then directs him to subdue the earth. And we certainly have done so.

  Broad strokes to be sure. On an individual basis, I'm sure there are plenty of Christians who, with their own interpretation and understanding of their religion, care about the environment. But at its core, you still have that instruction from God to bring the earth and the animals into submission rather than partnering with our home and our fellow earthlings.

  By contrast, you have other non-Christian belief systems, native American as an example, that do not hold such basic contempt for the world, and have much more respect for it.

  Does a biblical premise for Judeo-Christianity actually set the stage for environmental catastrophe? Self-fulfilling prophecy?

  Thoughts?
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  daystar

  Further...

  "Judeo-Christianity therefore entirely reverses the pagan problematic. Whereas this latter tends to believe that the world is eternal, while gods, like men, are not, Judeo-Christian monotheism asserts that God is eternal, but the world began and will end. [...] Asserting the primacy of space is, let me repeat, indirectly exalting man's power. Also, behind the opposition of time and space emerges another that is equally fundamental, between the time-eternity over which Yahweh rules and human time, which is a specifically historical time. This opposition is the classic one from Antiquity between intensity and duration. Unable to master time by very reason of his own finite existence, pagan man masters it through the intensity of his actions -- and by the resulting 'intensity' of the constructions specific to it." - Benoist.

  (These are quotes an acquaintance of mine has posted in another forum. I'm taking it in a different direction than he. I think I really need to pick up some Benoist.)
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  LittleToe

  I'm not aware of the Christian system of belief having any bearing on the subject.

  While the accusation might well be levelled at so-called "Christianised" lands, I would have to ask if this is by virtue of their religious beliefs or a capitalistic political ones?
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  daystar

  I would have to ask if this is by virtue of their religious beliefs or a capitalistic political ones?

  As if the two can be entirely seperated? You might be able to extract overt religiousity in politics, but the core influencing values remain.

  I'm not aware of the Christian system of belief having any bearing on the subject.

  Genesis 1:28 "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

  It's rather a Christian premise, is it not? As opposed to pagan premise that has not "emptied the world of every sacred dimension".
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  LittleToe

  As if the two can be entirely seperated? You might be able to extract overt religiousity in politics, but the core influencing values remain.

  And you believe there's a "core influencing value" in Christianity, to this effect?

  Genesis 1:28 "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it . Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

  That text is not only pre-Christian, but is also pre-Judaism. Surely you haven't forgotten that "Moses" (whomever he may actually have been) was only a redactor of several creation and geneaological accounts?

  (I noted the change in thread title, thanks, but it still doesn't side-step the chronological issue over the date of "core influencing value".
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  daystar

  And you believe there's a "core influencing value" in Christianity, to this effect?

  Sure, that the material world is sinful, that mankind is rotten, that the earth, etc. is merely a waiting room for an afterlife and that it is here merely for us to use and use up, to subdue. Moderates may lighten the emphasis on this, yet it remains.

  That text is not only pre-Christian, but is also pre-Judaism. Surely you haven't forgotten that "Moses" ( whomever he may actually have been ) was only a redactor of several creation and geneaological accounts?

  (I noted the change in thread title, thanks, but it still doesn't side-step the chronological issue over the date of "core influencing value".

  I don't understand where you're going with this. This doesn't change anything.
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  LittleToe

  I have difficulty understanding where you are deriving such a belief. Most Christians I know believe that there's nothing inately "sinful" about the creation, just mankind. Is there a Jewish view to that effect??

  I don't understand where you're going with this. This doesn't change anything.

  Maybe it's just the way I'm reading you, but it looked like you were claiming it as a Judeo-Christian invention absent in Earth-religions. Since your supporting text is chronologically older than Judeo-Christian belief, that would appear to undermine the hypothesis.

  Edited to add: Surely you don't so soon forget the time-worn Rev.11:18, where God is said to "..bring to ruin those ruining the earth."?
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  daystar

  Maybe it's just the way I'm reading you, but it looked like you were claiming it as a Judeo-Christian invention absent in Earth-religions. Since your supporting text is chronologically older than Judeo-Christian belief, that would appear to undermine the hypothesis.

  I still don't see the relevancy. I'm saying that it exists in the tradition as far back as it goes, however far that may be and from wherever it arose.
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  daystar

  I have difficulty understanding where you are deriving such a belief. Most Christians I know believe that there's nothing inately "sinful" about the creation, just mankind. Is there a Jewish view to that effect??

  Well, I'm not talking about the Christians you know, or the Christians I know. I'm talking about something core in the system. Perhaps "sinful" would not be the correct word for creation outside of man.

  According to the bible, we stand superior to the rest of creation, including the earth, which we are directed to "subdue". Within that premise, there lies the explicit potential for misusing the earth. Nowhere have I seen a scripture that says something like, "but care for the earth for she is your mother (as illustration), just as the Lord gave you life, the earth provides for continued existence. Do not trash her."
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  LittleToe

  My point still holds that there's no inference of "use and abuse", rather we find the contrary "ruin and you'll be brought to ruin" (see edited reference to Revelation 11).