Religions that don't go to war

ThomasCovenant

Hello In conversation today with brother-in- law who is still in the Borg.He said while he may have questions about the whole god issue he doesn't know of any other religion that refuses to kill their fellow believer if politicians say you must. That is a strong plus point for him on the virtues of the WT. Is he correct? Are there any other religions who will not kill their fellow man? I am about to search on Google but thought I'd try here too. Thanks Thomas Covenant

headmath

Jdubs don't have to kill anyone . They'll get jehoover to do that for them. BTW jehoover hates dolls. Look at paradise lost book

carla

Dubs don't kill anyone? Does the blood policy ring a bell? No vaccinations? No mental health & the suicides and entire families murdered?

Many other religions don't go to war, does that really make them moral? So if you see your neighbor being molested and tortured you would do the moral thing and not lift a finger? What about having no greater love than to lay your life down for another?

Would the world really be a better place with Hitler and the concentration camps? After the Jews, Gypsies and homosexuals (ok throw in a few conscientious objectors too, yes, like the jw's, or those who thought prison would be better than war not realizing what kind of prisons they would be sent to) who would have been next?

The idea that jw's or others are somehow morally superior because they don't go to war, in my opinion, makes them cowards not morally superior. I see them as ' I got mine that's all I care about' mentality. They care so little for their fellow humans and the state of the earth they look selfish not heroic.

betterdaze

Quakers?

http://www.quaker.org/
(Check out to their Peacemaker sites)

http://www.pym.org/exhibit/
(Quakers and the Political Process)

~Sue

drew sagan

This point is not as strong as it seems on the surface. Here is why...

If your brother-in-law is a family man, I think he may start to see the point on this.

First we take the idea of defense and war to a personal level, your families home. You may ask, 'If someone was in your home and was going to do harm to your family, would you defend them with force?'. They should answer Yes, no man would simply sit back and let his family be violated in their own home.

Next we ask the question, 'If that same man who was going to do harm to your family ran over to an Eldery ladies home next door to do harm to them, would you go over and provide protection for her, especially knowing she was weak and could not defend herself? Wouldn't it be wrong to sit back and do nothing, or mabye just call the poilice and watch from the saftey of your own home the neighbor being violated? In a situation like many of us would take some kind of proactive measure to stop the violence, to protect the innocent.

Moving along, lets say that a group of individuals with bad intentions deside to attack the area where you live. There can be a varitey of examples given for this. Everything from living a few centuries back in history where the older men towns and villages would provide protection and defense for the women and children inside. Not so common today in Western lands, but still very common in the 3rd world). The point is that if you and your neighbors got wind that a gang of good for nothings was coming to harm your familys and property, you would unite with your fellow neighbors and defend yourselves from this threat.

This is all quite reasonable and CANNOT be seen as A BREACH OF NETRALITY but instead as simply making a conscience descision about how one is going to best protect his own life and family as well as give assistace to others near him who need such protection.

So this way you can get a JW to actually say they would stand up in defense of things that are very personal to them (family & neighbors). The JW more than likely will not see a problem with this. You then follow this up with 'So when is organized defense and force OK and when is it not?'

It's at this point you will enter into a toally grey zone that a JW will never think of! Should force be used against those who are harming and destorying the lives of others? Or is nonviolence a more 'Christian' method? What if nobody ever stood up to hitler?

The point is that we live in an evil world, and the Bible never really gives us a clear answer on this subject. The JW is shown all the horrible things other people do that are Christians and then is told 'we are not like them!!!'.

One of the most important things to bring out is that their position on war is A POSITION OF PRIVLIDGE! They have the privlidge NOT to fight in war because others are willing to do that for them!

JWs could only advance this idea in the modern Western world. They try to make you think that this is an issue for 'the true religion', but it is not. It is a Red Herring that is used to keep you thinking that everyone is evil but JWs.

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “there is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace"

carla

They should answer Yes, no man would simply sit back and let his family be violated in their own home.

Sadly my jw has flip flopped on that very issue. Hard pill to swallow to think your husband would not protect you or your children (his own) to save in own ass, oops I mean soul or should I say chance at paradise earth. Today how would he answer? Today seems like a 'yes, I would protect my family day'. Who knows what the next day will bring. Depends on which jw he sees I suppose.

Qcmbr

Nice name Thomas from a great set of books!

I discussed this with my JW friend and pretty much got the better of the discussion by the following logic:

1/ God commanded the Israelites to go to war.

2/ God commanded the Israelites to go to war against apostate sections of their own clan.

3/ The apostles were armed after three years of time spent with Jesus (see Garden of Gethsemane)

4/ Responsibility for killing during war is on the heads of the leader no matter who actually carries out the order (King David and Uriah)

5/ How can you lay your life down for another if you can't fight for another. What other scenario realistically would meet this criteria barring accidents?

6/ God does not protect the innocent, weak or helpless therefore in the absence of this help we are responsible for helping where we can - to not do so is to allow the abuse and destruction of those we are obliged to protect.

parakeet

"... he doesn't know of any other religion that refuses to kill their fellow believer if politicians say you must."

JWs kill their fellow believers spiritually and emotionally. The hate is there. That they don't finish the job and kill them physically is not something I would care to brag about.

ThomasCovenant

Thanks for the replies. I said to him even if they were the only ones who would not go to war it still wouldn't mean they were the one and only true religion. Thanks for the progressive answer Drew Sagan. I agree with you however it's not easy (at least for me anyway)in conversation to come up with thoughts such as these. Nevertheless it still doesn't seem right that a Catholic Brit would kill a Catholic German or a Muslim Iraqi would kill a Muslim Iranian whereas a JW would generally not kill another JW. Not in war anyway. Thanks Qcmbr for the name reference.Thomas Covenant

RR

THis doesn't make any sense. Are we talking about war or just cold blooded murder? Because if we're talking about War, I know of plenty of religions who do not get involved in politics and war.

And I would think if a Church or religion does not believe in politics and war would not listen to a politician, who would tell them to kill.

RR

Religions that don't go to war

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