Is there anyway anyone can deny all religion is nothing more than guesses?

by The Dragon 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The Dragon, I get your meaning but it's buried under sloppy logic. You slip in bible and religion and God as if they are interchangeable. The way I see things, they are not. The first question is loaded, so it cannot be answered seriously. I'll show you what I mean.

    Is there anywayanyone can deny all religion is nothing more than guesses?

    When you use words like any or all, you either drastically broaden or limit the question.

    Is there anyway anyone can deny all religion is nothing more than guesses?

    Double negative. This also makes the question confusing and near un-answerable. So let's take out those adjectives and see what happens to the question.

    Is religion just a bunch of guesses?

    Now, if the bible, religion, and God are not interchangeable, let's ask all three questions.

    Is religion just a bunch of guesses?

    Is the bible a reliable document on the nature of God?

    Is God a figment of our imagination?

    This is what I think. Is religion just a bunch of guesses?

    Pretty much. My definition of religion is that it is man's search for meaning, or God. It's us searching upward and outward. We struggle, perfect, and make mistakes. As groups define themselves, they often make the mistake of exclusivity. I think it's a primal urge of people to identify with a group and exclude the "stranger". When religious doctrine gets thrown in the mix, we have groups rabidly opposed to each other. But this kind of exclusivity is not unique to religion. We see it in soccer, hockey moms, and nature nuts.

    Is the bible a reliable document on the nature of God?

    As with all historical documents, it is prone to error over time. I think the best it can be is an approximation. I prefer to consider it a historical document with some great tips. We've grown beyond it's usefulness in some areas, such as dietary laws and the "cities of refuge". Our justice and health system today is far more refined. That doesn't mean the bible doesn't have value. It's an early codex on what is good and what is bad, and how to obtain justice. Without documents like the bible, people today may never have conceived of writing the rules of living down.

    Is God a figment of our imagination?

    In my case, I have no choice but to believe He is real. God rescued me from a horrible future. I don't depend on religion or the bible, however, to maintain my belief. My faith is based on personal acts of love and rescue from a living God.

    How does God best express His love to us? Through the acts of kindness of others. In a primal, dog-eat-dog world, I would not strive to make it a better place. But my worldview strives to bring creation and beauty back in to the world, to lift people out of the mire, and prove that they can live better. I live like this because of my believe in God, that He did this for me. I pass on my gratefulness to others.

  • Andy C
    Andy C

    How does God best express His love to us? Through the acts of kindness of others. In a primal, dog-eat-dog world, I would not strive to make it a better place. But my worldview strives to bring creation and beauty back in to the world, to lift people out of the mire, and prove that they can live better. I live like this because of my believe in God, that He did this for me. I pass on my gratefulness to others.

    Yes. Well said.

  • Legolas
    Legolas

    Welcome to the board Dragon!

    I have to say that you just buzzed my brain with your questions!...If you know what I mean!...LOL

  • sinis
    sinis

    This is all my reasoning and just off the cuff...

    I think that it is obvious that there is a God. Take ANY realm of study or spieces no matter how simple it is and you become intrigued at how complicated something can be. I think there is wonder and awe in creation and it speaks loudly of a Creator and His personality.

    I believe that Jesus was a highly unique individual. His existence on this earth is well documented. He lives up to MANY prophecies that described WHO to look for when he came. His teaching was UNIQUE! He did things that point to who sent him; walked on water, healed the sick, the lame, the blind, raised the dead, etc! He DIED when he didn't have to for YOU! WHY?!! His resurrection was witnessed by over 500 people! His experience is the only such experience on this earth!

    In my search for truth after getting out of jw, I totally feel that God had SO MUCH with me getting to realization and I feel that He reassured me with my decision. I prayed to Him to say if my path was correct. I prayed for my girlfriend at the time to skip the church service she was looking forward to if I was in the wrong. If I was on the right path I wanted her to offer a donation into the collection plate as it went by; something she hasn't done for 5 years and I had scoffed at doing. Short version - she went to church and donated a $10 on a SUDDEN COMPULSION!

    I COULDN'T BELIEVE MY EYES!!!

    In addition to all of that my belief in a God of Love has now filled my life with JOY and LOVE! I am so happy and excited each day and my Bible reading or spiritual reading brings me such happiness and joy. I do not think one can experience JOY if it is based upon a lie or a guess. I think for it to be as powerful as it is it must be rooted in God.

    God didn't explain himself fully to us. The apostle Paul said at 1 Cor 13:12 - Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. So complete knowledge is not ours at this point. That is where faith comes into play. But we HAVE been given enough evidence to know that our faith is NOT without basis or facts. ! Cor 2:16 says "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" [ a ] But we have the mind of Christ.

    So, Jesus' COMMAND was to LOVE! Repent and accept Jesus' sacrifice as your means of a clean conscience and your means of salvation. After that it gets pretty exciting when you really mean it!

    So from facts and experience I feel that religion is so much more than guesses! Unfortunately, people can misuse that power and we have been warned to stay clear of anyone who would ROB you of your FREEDOM in Christ!

    Those are my thoughts. I hope it helps.

    Please share this documentation, and do not quote such people as Eusebius or his blantant fraud with the works of Josephius (works of antiquities).

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    Religion exists for as long as humans; But scientific methods can't show the existance of a deity.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    A prophet by definition could easily refute this. Should such a person exist - someone with eye witness exposure to the Divine they could put the lie to the idea that all believers are simply deluded. Now add to this the idea that the Spirit of God is somehow tangible - that some effects are available upon its reception and you tie in eyewitnesses with experential proof. For the basic believer there are several possible layers of actual proof in the divine 1/ Direct experience (visions, dreams, miracles such as healing) 2/ Intellectual ranging from the obvious conclusion that the Golden Law of the NT would be of absolute benefit to society and the world if all lived by them through to those who see evidence of creation in life, purpose in the motion of the heavens and in existence. 3/ Personailty alteration (for the better!) as direct result of religious experience - drunks , the violent, abusers of drugs, those without faith or belief and so on having some change made that alters the 'inner man' profoundly that can be attributed to some invisible external source. 4/ Finally there is the experience of prayer which, for many, provides a two way communication that , to them, is tangible and results in answers to questions and at times an emotional response at best (and poorly at that) described as 'religious ecstacy'. There will always be someone willing to discount anothers experience as worthless, foolish, self deluding etc ad nauseaum however, to those who have walked the path and paid the price there is plenty of proof.

  • freetosee
  • myelaine
    myelaine

    "In the final analysis, I don't know anything at all about God other than what other people say and have said."

    dear Terry...

    For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell IN YOUR HEART through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded IN LOVE, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that YOU MAY BE FILLED with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:14-19)

    how can you not love?

    love michelle

    p.s. Rev 2:5...xoxo

  • The Dragon
    The Dragon

    Answers are the "end" to guesses.

    People searching for answers would welcome a person bearing them.

    People empowered by their guesses into the unknown,,,would see answers as a destroyer to their power and guesses.

    answers are also an "end" to problems.

    But the person(s) bearing them would be seen differently by different people with different intentions.

    they would be saviors to some..destroyers to others...

    But what would they be seen as to God who holds them?

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