So . . . how come it was okay for god to make a baby with Mary, but it was not okay for angels to make babies with the daughters of men? Any metaphysicians out there?
ESTEE
Demons and God did the same thing *gasp*
by ESTEE 24 Replies latest jw friends
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Wasanelder Once
If we accept the premise, the angels produced hybrid offspring that were a new form of life, or an altered one, sort of anamolys or freaks.
Jehovah transferred the life of an existing person into human DNA and placed it inside a surrogate mother as it were. There was no intercourse ergo, no fornication.
This is just silly.
You can obviously see the difference between the two events in these paintings done at the time of the events.
Can't you see it?
Oh boy.
W.Once
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garybuss
If God's sons had children, that makes the children God's grandchildren. What kind of a grandfather did he prove to be?
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ESTEE
Hi wasa,
Silly,
huh . . . hmmm . . .
and garybuss wrote:
If God's sons had children, that makes the children God's grandchildren. What kind of a grandfather did he prove to be?
I'm now thinking that neither story makes much sense. The "historical results" of either union were "destroyed". The Nephilim were destroyed in the flood according to the "story". The "disobedient" angels were said to have shed their human bodies and returned to heaven to receive "punishment". And after Jesus was born, the temple and all the familial records were destroyed. So no one can claim hereditiy to either set of lineage. Sounds like one big cover-up that humans concocted for religious control over the masses.
I never thought of God as a grandfather. If all that stuff is true, he is a "punishing" God and people who claim to worship this God have a "punishing" belief system. Nothing I could be attracted to. It is all fear-based.
Isn't it?
ESTEE
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daystar
Sounds like one big cover-up that humans concocted for religious control over the masses.
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freetosee
"It is interesting to note that God destroyed a world because of Genetic contamination. At Genesis 6:1-4 the account says,
When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. (NIV)
The result of this union of angels and women is shown in the verse 4. Peter shows that this act was disobedience on the part of the angels in 1 Peter 3:19,20,
through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, (NIV)
He mentions these angels again in 2 Peter 2:4,5 and also Jude at verses 6,7. Jude shows that these angles, and what they did can be compared to what Sodom and Gomorrah did. While of course the men of Sodom practiced unnatural sex, and also had lust (wrongful lust toward women) These angels had the same attitude, and feelings, but toward a strange flesh, that is, other flesh, because they were not flesh. They wanted to mingle with human flesh. A commentary on 1 Peter written by Kenneth S. Wost quotes from Dr. James H. Emgray who suggests the possible purpose of Satan, in this angelic in rode into the human race. He says, " A confounding of two distinct orders of creatures, and production of a mixed race, partly human, and partly super human which would be just such a derangement of the divine plan as to distort that which accrued namely the almost total extermination of all who are upon the earth". Then Wost makes some comments which we will paraphrase here, Now connecting this with the fact that our Lord after His death made a proclamation to these fallen angels, we suggest that the probable purpose of the angelic apostasy so far as Satan was concerned, was thederangement of the of the divine plan of the substitutionary atonement of the Son of God. For if his purpose had succeeded, God's Son would not have put himself into a race part angle, and part man. Christ was to answer in his humanity to the humanity of the first Adam. The action of God completely exterminating the human race, and saving Noah and his family, prevented the spreading of this unlawful mingling of this angelic and human natures. The proclamation Christ made to these spirits in prison was probably to the effect that with his dying as a ransom for Adams offspring, completing his ransoming work, He had defeated the plan of Satan to defeat his purpose. It would therefore be a proclamation of victory. Now it has been said of these angels, rather the offspring of these angels and women would be sterile for their highbred. There is absolutely no proof of this. Apparently, with God's purpose in view He created the human race a procreated race. Unlike the angels who were created directly, and apparently individually. This would make it possible for Christ to become human, and die for all humankind, for as in Adam all die so in Christ should all be made alive. Christ the first fruits when he was resurrected, and those who are Christ at his second coming. These will be his brothers, the church his bride."
This is taken for a PDF I downloaded once, but I can’t find the link where I downloaded it from. My understanding is that it was written by Edward Dunlap. I’ll see if I can find it…
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ESTEE
freetosee:
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I know all that. It's what the jws believe. Do you really believe this? Though I have been gone from the borg for seven years, I don't think their beliefs on this have changed any.
I am open to hearing other opinions.
ESTEE
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freetosee
I remember the angels were explained to have wrongful lust. So I thought the attempt to create a new breed so as to counterfeit the woman’s seed or invalidate the ransom (first Adam = last Adam) by infiltrating an intelligent race (demi-gods) other than "earthling man", was a new thought to me.
Do I believe this? Maybe I would, but it happens to be that I don’t believe in the bible or any religion/faith/god.
There are three occasions I can think off were biblegod had a part in the producing of offspring: Cain, Isaac and Jesus.
Adam and Eve were to be fruitful and fill the earth. In Genesis ch 18, Yhwh materializes together with two angels and visits Abraham and Sarah. He eats and drinks with them and tells them that when he returns next year Sarah will have a son. In 21: 1, 2 it happens. How? This is not really explained, but we are told that Isaac is Abrahams son (22:16), then again Jesus was also called the carpenters son. The Gospels emphasize that Mary was a virgin… Why so much emphasis? Evil Yhwh has lied many times and the OT shows me he doesn’t have high morals. So maybe he did like one of his colleges Zeus.
Jesus was mortal or else he couldn’t have died. He was brought back to life by god. The Nephilim were mortal and got killed in the flood. Ok, if the soul is immortal at least the fleshly parts of Jesus and his (distant) relatives got killed (well, if Yhwh was their Grandfather, then Jesus must have been their uncle –Uncle Jesus. lol). Who says the Nephilim were less perfect then Jesus. They are given positive attributes in Genesis 6, taking women whom they choose wasn’t that uncommon. They were the superstars of their time. Maybe the women were after them, so they could choose.
I think your questions are very good, but I can’t answer without making stuff up. So I’m looking forward to hear other thoughts too.
fts
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ellderwho
What I find interesting regarding demons taking on human form is that they the demons were able to have a dual nature (if you will). However, did you ever try to convince a witness that the Bible teaches that Christ had/has a dual nature.
There theology cannot have it. But they''ll gladly except the dual nature of a demon. On top of that the demon can enter and leave a human at will without any help from Jehovah.
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ESTEE
freetosee wrote:
There are three occasions I can think off were biblegod had a part in the producing of offspring: Cain, Isaac and Jesus.
This is something I never thought about before: Cain, Isaac, Jesus. Thanks for the comments. I'm interested not necessarily in whether it is a Christian or other religious belief. I'm trying to think outside the box to reach a logical conclusion.
ellderwho wrote:
What I find interesting regarding demons taking on human form is that they the demons were able to have a dual nature (if you will). However, did you ever try to convince a witness that the Bible teaches that Christ had/has a dual nature.
Shocking! So . . . did Jesus have a dual nature? Some people claim they have channelled Jesus, also called Sananda. I wonder what Jesus himself would say about God having sex. Ooops, I forgot, our parents never had sex, right? Okay, maybe they did it once, but . . .
ESTEE